guido
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Posts posted by guido
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I thought the swing arm and rear wheel geometry was changed after the first series v11? Was the swing arm lengthened? The high speed handling was certainly less prone to wobbles on later series.
Have been looking through this forum recently, very interesting and relevent topics, thx to all involved.
Regarding the bike, I am aware that the front fork angle was changed back to 26 degrees from 25. This in itself will give you longer wheel base. Then I know the back fork has been re-inforced. If it is any longer, I doubt, but I don't know. The reduced wobbleness I think is mainly attributable to the front fork protruding further to the front, and then a firmer back from all the stiffening. The longer wheelbase in itself also gives you a more docile creature.
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I kind of think old bearings, like old underware, are safer.
Here is why:
New underware, unless you prewash it, is often coated with chemicals.
People who bought underware and use it in a disposable fashion, may get a rash
Likewise an old bearing is broken in and proven.
It probably just needs lube and care.
But it should be inspected and like underware when you are about to go on a hot date, replaced if even slightly sub-standard.
just to keep you posted regarding my bike.
I have now fully recovered, so the focus has turned towards the bike. The dealer got it in 2 weeks ago, and checked a few things, mainly at the front. He discovered nothing unusual. I had a meeting set up with them today, and also went and had a look at the bike. the front wheel was off, and I went and turned the bush, protruding on the one side. It was difficult to turn by hand, and gave a little "clonk" from time to time. We put it on a tyre balancer, and once you roll the wheel, there is a noticable coarseness or rumble. There is certainly something wrong with the bearing, they are SKF, so I have suggested to send the bearings to SKF and let them tell us, if, at any time, there could have been significant resistance from the bearing, which could perhaps explain the "buzz" I felt just before the crash.
I had suggested that they sent the bike to the factory, but that seems not to be an option, and they have suggested that they buy back this bike, and I pay in the difference on a new model.
I am reluctant to let the bike go, provided I can find a reason for the crash. If I can't, then it must go, however.
Any advice, suggestions or experience? Now we have a fatigued steering damper bolt, a defective front wheel bearing and a gearbox on recall!
I am still smiling!
As regards the front fork setting, then the top of the fork was exactly in line with the top of the yoke. Somebody suggested this could also be of significance.
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Now I'm feeling much better, healing fast. thanks for all good wishes.
As for the bike. Air pressure 2.4 front, 2.5 back. Suspension checked front and back, OK. Steering damper 3 clicks. All wheel bearings OK. Engine: flushed out sand from one cover and drain back, apart from sand, engine oil clean. Replaced sparkplug, runs perfect. Gearbox OK.
The only thing we have found that's not OK, is the eyebolt for the steering damper.
The blot has broken off, right at the base of the thread. There is evidence of fatigue, one third of the break being greyish matt in colour, the rest silvery and knobbly(?).
The best take on the situation is that the steering damper has come off at the begining of the bumpy road, and that the steeing became unstable.
The reason for the fatigue, could possibly be the adjustment of the damper clamp. Which might have made it possible to lock on the steering damper instead of the steering lock tabs on the clamp. This is not yet clear, as my bike has got broken tabs, it will have to be checked on a new bike.
This could explain the scenario seen, and there is no damage to the steering damper, it has certainly not made the violent swings the steering has done, as there are no marks either end, only a scratch where the damper has fallen on the oil cooler.
My advice to anyone with this steering set-up. is to check the eyebolt, right where the tread starts, before the contra nut, on the lower clamp. Also check that the steering is stopped by the stops, not the clamp. This is only applicable on parking, of course, but it could bend the bolt, only for it to snap later.
As for my fits and old age
but thanks for the good wishes -
I don't know what caused this accident, but it seems to me that at 100KPH it was not the spring sag or the damping setting. I agree.
I would think that something more serious must have happened.
Are the tires deformed? no, the tires are fine, the rims are fine apart from a couple of scratches on the front.
Did you feel speed wobble?I felt absolutely nothing!!! I was going and the next moment I was sliding on the road. That's it! In retrospect, there was something wrong for a split second before, because I remember looking down and thinking what the f****, I seem to remember a buzz like a sound, but it was so short it could be my imagination!
Could the brakes have locked? Yes, they could have, or the motor or the box, I don't know, the reason I have not included these options are that I didn't see any skidmarks at the start of the fall.
The rear hydraulics can burn on the exhaust if not clipped in and if the pistons are sticking the fluid can heat and lock. Funny enough, that happened on a test bike I tried, but I initially thought I was running out of fuel on the unit. It came graduallly and was not dangerous.
But you don't appear to have one long skid. No, that's why I assume tank slap, there were no skidmarks. But, as I said, I noticed no skaking or anything, suddenly I was just on the road.
Could the steering damper have locked up??? The steering damper moves, but has broken the rod on the unset of the threading in the first thread groove.
Could your engine have locked up?Yes, that is also possible, but again, I noticed no skidmarks, and again, there was no warning. In any case I was driving with the fingers on brake and clutch, and had there been any warning, I would have been able to do something.
I am no expert, but your skid marks seem to indicate that you were traveling faster than 100KPH. I can of course not tell you exactly how fast I was going, but I,m running this bike in, and the rest of the trip was between 110 and 130, round about 4000RPM. Nice leisurely trip. Normally, when I notice anything out of the usual, dog, open gate, dirt on the road, parked car, my instinct is always to grap brake and clutch, roll off the throttle and look past the direct problem to the road ahead, while keeping the problem in the corner of my eye. Sounds weird maybe, but this a routine which has stood me in good stead for 30 years at about 50000km on black bombers, BSA, Mirage, Norton and Motor Guzzi. So my guess is about 100, it could actually have been less. If you look at my attire and my wounds, they are minor. I was wearing normal jeans, short sleeved shirt, windbraker out off some modern breathing artificial suede?, lightly padded with a thin layer of white fluffy insulation. Helmet and good leather shoes. Helmet untouched!! left hand grazed along little finger and ridge, slight wound left elbow, small wounds both buttocks, right leg and arm as on photo. I don't think it could have been faster.
Maybe I am wrong, but that hill looks kind of steep. no the hill is not steep at all, my guess is 1 in 15, I was going up hill.
When you changed lane position were you doing it quickly, like you were feeling out the countersteering or scrubbing the tires? Not at all, slow planned move to avoid trouble.
In retrospect I should not have called this a tank slap, because I don't really know what it is/was. The reason I did, was because there were no skidmarks as from a locked up motor/box, and because the stops on the lower fork clamp are both broken, left and right, indicating heavy steering movement. In retrospect these movements could have been caused by the careering down the road. the skidmarks you see are slidingmarks as the bike went down, from back and front wheels I assume..
The guys from Moto Guzzi did not make it yesterday, and I'm not going to start fiddling with the bike before they come. Before we do that, we won't know. I just hope there will be an answer, because I am not going on that thing again without knowing what caused this. I pay for it to go to Moto Guzzi to get fixed, they should have the knowledge to also give a good idead of the cause(s)
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Just a short rejoinder.
My steering damper is actually broken on the short rod, attaching the body to the lower front fork! And yes, there is dampening on the unit when you move it. How much I don't know, as I have left all as is, for an anticipated visit today by the local importer.
What that means though, is most likely, that the dampener was working at the start of the incident, assuming it has been snapped by the violent movements.
I have read all your contributions with great interest, but I have not even finished breaking the unit in, with 1100km on the clock. So I have not been in any conditions which could be regarded as extreme (like speed or track), and there has been no issues with handling before, apart from low speed wobbles, and "fall ins" , initially, in curves, cured with slightly higher air pressure and slightly modified driving technique (which, come to think of it, most likey had something to do with a working steering on this unit) sompared to my other Guzzis. So the bike is as received from the importer, and, as said, all seemed fine like that. The only thing I would have said is that the suspension felt far better than on any of my other bikes.
And tanks Fox for pointing to the right link, can't post this reply on the aussie site though, citing "invalid session"
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One of my mates came by this afternoon, and pointed out, that my steering damper is actually broken. The eye is on the cylinder, but the rod has snapped off, so in effect, no damper.
I would ,ost likely put this down to result of, rather than cause of problem.
I have asked the Moto Guzzi/Aprillia imprter to come by for a coke tomorrow, where I will discuss further. I have run out of battery in my camera, but will post one pic here when i can. The bike is still standing on my truck as we picked it up.
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I have had a fall on my 2000 V11 sport, thread posted here:
http://www.morini.com.au/index2.html
anyone with similar experiences?
Regards
Ps I find the registration required on this forum a bit of an overkill, yet more passwords to remember, and for what.? Have a look at the above forum, seems to work fine without. Much easier to give your five cents worth!
tank slap v11 sport
in Technical Topics
Posted
Just an update.
SKF seem to have done an exellent job of cutting my front wheel bearings open. They can see no fault on the bearings.
I am thus back to square one. What caused the buzz just before the fall?