GuzziMoto

Elaborate on which part? The part about replacing the ECU?, for a V11 that would be Cliff's MYECU. The part about the first gen PC's not being that great? I was told they fudged sensor inputs to achieve the desired fuel output. Whether this is true or not I cannot prove. But they did not work that well. You had much less tuning ability then you do now. The saving grace for them was nobody else really made much. And by the time other companies came out with crappy sensor fudging boxes they had already figured out how to do it better. Now they make some very refined and integrated devices.

I'm sorry that what you read into my "food for thought" statement was so upsetting. But all I did was point out that my new Guzzi cost less to buy then what a friend paid for a new Guzzi in '93. I did not suggest that a new Guzzi should cost MORE then one did in '93, nor did I attempt to factor in what $17,000 was worth in '93 versus what $14,000 is worth today. Yes, they do buildmore Grisos today then they built Daytonas in '93. But as far as I know they likely actually made a profit selling Daytonas in'93 and they are not, apparently, making a profit selling Grisos today. My point was, since you did not seem to be able to grasp it the first time, is that in '93 they priced Guzzis based on how many they could sell much better then in todays Piaggio age where they based there margins on how many they wanted to sell. They set too low a price on the current bikes to make sufficient profit on them selling in the volume they sold. Period. They expected to increase sales by nearly 50% and based prices on that and instead sales were actually down from what I understand. Edit deleted

Nooo..., It was designed to correct for bad fueling demanded by EPA standards. European bikes may not have had as bad a problem with this in the past but I suspect that nowadays European bikes would benefit as much as US bikes as far as correcting poor fueling to meet emission standards. Whether Power Commanders work over there or not has little to do I suspect with whether they are common or not. More to do with market attitudes. The original Power Commander was not a great product. It relied on input trickery I believe to get a modified output. The subsequent versions are better then most like products and in my opinion about the only way to get better results is with a product that replaces the ECU altogether.

A proper two into one collector is a nice bit of kit, but if the dip in torque does not bother you then it is of no more value to you then any of the other mods.. If you like the feel of the bike as it is, then ride, ride ride.

Nooo....., the WANT to sell more Guzzi's to more people. They NEED to make a profit. The problem they have right now is that when deciding how much they can sell the new Guzzi's for they based their calculations on not how many they sold last year but how many they wanted to sell this year. That is a classic bean counter mistake. What they should have done is based the price of a new Guzzi on how many they sold last year (that would mean a higher price per bike) and if they sold more this year then they did last year they could adjust the price for next year to reflect that. Just food for thought, back in '93 my friend bought a new Daytona for $17,000 (he just sold it to me for a bit less). I bought my Griso for $14,000 in '06. No one wants to pay more for something, but selling a low volume hand built motorcycle for less today then it would have cost in '93 (not even taking into account what $17k was worth back then) is an odd business plan.

You may have a bad Power Commander, but that aside, if your bike runs better without a Power Commander then it does with one (assuming the PC is not defective) then it means the map in the PC is not correct. Even a box stock Guzzi can run better with a Power Commander then it does without. The stock map in the ECU is not even close to perfect and leaves plenty of room for improvement from a PC. You may have a bad PC and if I were you I would investigate that further, possibly by trying the same PC on another Guzzi and seeing if the same symptoms occur.

I would first check the fuse and the relay. Swap the relays around. All but one of the stock relays are the same and thus interchangable. Most seem to go with all the same when they replace them (as most end up doing). The relays are a common issue and if you check your manual you will see that one relay not working can take out several systems. I believe the systems you described are all on one relay. The head light has two different bulbs in it as I recall. The main bulb is on the same relay as the tail light I think, but the running light is on another relay and can give the impression that the headlight is lit. But all this is from memory and I could be wrong. Check the wiring diagram and it will tell you for sure.

Relays have caused the exact same symptoms on my wifes V11. I now carry spare relays whenever we go far from home. And the first time it happened my local dealer already new what was wrong before I finished describing what happened. It is a known fault. The stock relays fail. It is also true that some have had issues with the connectors that the relays plug into, so that is the next place I would look. But if you can be more specific about what happens when it doesn't start (does the fuel pump run, does the starter run, anything clicks?) we could be more specific about what to do.

I doubt that seafoam will fix a broken injector, but it is possible that yours is only dirty. But it sounds like it is broken. The spring that closes it could be broken or the shaft could be binding. But obviously it is hard to tell from here. If cleaning is actually going to work I would think it would require removing the injector from the bike and backflushing it with cleaner to force whatever could be causing it to stick open back out the larger hole at the inlet to the injector. This would be possible to rig up with a little creative thinking on your part. Personally I would try to identify who made the injector and what its part number is and buy a new, preferably matched set from a company like this. http://www.rceng.com/index.aspx Reconditioned injectors could be fine, but they do not save you that much money and personally I go on long rides on my bikes and do not want to be stranded in EBF.

Some days I'm not sure if Guzzis engineers are 50 years behind or 100 years ahead.

Well said. I would add that you can't run Guzzi the same way you would run Aprilia or Piaggio and expect it to work as well. In fact, out of all the other makes Piaggio owns, Guzzi has probably the most in common with Vespa. People do not buy Guzzis because they are the fastest or best in any given way. I bought mine (3 so far) because of the way they make me feel, the emotional connection to them. Their history and the fact that they are hand built in Mandello is part of that (to me).

Well, all this talk has motivated me to put both bikes (07 Griso 11 and 00 V11) to another back to back comparison. I have done it a few times already, but look forward to doing it again. I will agree that the Griso chassis is more complient and forgiving. But a less rigid chassis is often that way, take for example MX chassis's. The move to a more rigid chassis was followed by a steep learning curve on how to set up the suspension and even a couple steps backwards to add flex back into the chassis to "improve" handling.

I doubt that Guzzis use special injectors. You may find the same injector from a different source to be cheaper.

It looks like there are a couple changes made to accomplish the rake change. It does not appear to be merely a change in rake alone. There is a step down to lower the steering stem, and the distance from the front engine mount bolt holes (atleast that is what I think they are) to the steering stem is noticeably increased by what looks to be an inch or so. Thnks for the pics, they are worth 1,000 words each.

To each their own, you gotta go with your experiences in this matter and I have to go with mine. And mine is that I have NEVER seen a bike wobble so bad it "broke" the steering dampener, but I have seen a few broken steering dampeners cause bikes to wobble. I did have a Harley racebike wobble so bad it broke the steering stop, but it did not break the dampener. But we don't really know what happened, so it is just speculation. All I'm saying is that my V11 handles sharper then my Griso, bumpy roads or smooth it does not matter. Yes the IOM is like few other places and I would not race ANY bike around their. I do respect those who do but I do not wish to be amoung them.

If he had a broken steering dampener, that would explain why his bike was wobbling. A faulty steering dampener can without a doubt make a V11(or likely any other bike) wobble. While I have never run the IOM (and never will, those guys are wack. I was watching it in HD last night and the bikes keep getting faster but the track keeps getting bumpier it seems) I am not a someone who hasn't done things but sits on the sidelines telling people who do actually do things how they should be done. I have ridden my share of bikes around race tracks and done well enough. I make no claims to being the best, but I am far from the worst. If you disagree with me, fine. I don't really care. Personal preference is a big part of bike handling, I just happen to prefer the sharper edge of the V11 to the softer edge of the Griso.

Moving the front wheel closer to the motor and the rear wheel further back seems like going in the right direction to me. Too bad people like that don't work at Guzzi any longer.

I have both a Griso and a red frame V11, and once properly setup (the V11 needed dampning in the front forks and a quality shock) the V11 outhandles the Griso hands down. The Griso is easier to ride fast, but can not go as fast. The Grisos frame feels less stiff, not stiffer, to me and does not provide the level of feedback the V11 does. When you see a V11 wobbling or weaving, it is likely due to something not being setup right. You can make a V11 handle poorly but if you set it up right it is still the best handling bike Guzzi has built in my opinion. Style is a whole nother matter, and while I too love the looks of the V11 I also find the Griso to be beautiful. I prefer it with the pipe exiting on the right (as mine does now) and also prefer the sound of the 2 into 1 system. It has a meaner, less Ducati like tone.

I think that is a interesting idea. The counter shaft in axis with the swingarm pivot is a good idea but as with most design changes it has advantages and disadvantages. You've mentioned some of the adv., but one disadvantage (compared to a more conventional chain drive arr.) is that in a well designed chain drive setup you actually get the rear wheel pushed down into the asphalt under accelleration for better traction. I do not believe that this setup allows that. I also like the idler setup the new Buells have.

Hack, my point is that in normal sport riding on the road, the extra 4 inches (roughly) of wheelbase is not a problem. It is only when taking tight, slow corners that you really notice it. A Griso is not the best choice for parking lot racing, but it is still fun and others do it on harder bikes then a Griso (like Harley baggers and V-Rods). Sometimes the reward for doing something isn't based on how easy it is but rather how hard. I have other bikes that I also used for parking lot racing, but unfortuneatly the parking lot racing series I used to do has shut down. So now I race my SuperMoto in local races. Still huge fun, but not something to do on ANY Guzzi. I don't think the driveshaft is that big a part of the weight, but I have not weighed one. A Guzzi D/S is much shorter and smaller in dia. then a Car D/S, so that may be part of it. Besides, I would rather have Ti then CF.

Hack, I have a Griso and even though it has a wheelbase way over your 1480mm line in the sand, it actually handles the twisties very well. Yes, a shorter wheelbase can be a good thing, and I would not mind if my Griso had a shorter wheelbase. But wheelbase length is not all there is to good handling and I have ridden a few bikes with longer wheelbases and they can handle very well. The only place I have found it to be a serious drawback is tight corners at lower speeds like when doing parking lot racing. The long wheelbase just won't let the bike turn as tight as you want. But the trade off can be better handling in faster corners. Just food for thought.

It could be that the injector is just dirty and cleaning it will fix it. I have not had good luck with that but maybe you will. But as you mentioned, it could also be a broken or worn/gauled part that is causing the problem. All the cleaner in the world won't fix that. As I recall you don't have to remove the throttle body and they are pretty easy to remove. The only tricky bit was the clamp on fuel connection is a one time use clamp. But I have only actually had to remove the injectors on a Buell, never on my Guzzi so don't trust me on that.

If they want to become a maker of disposable bikes like the big four, or worse yet like Hyosung, then it doesn't matter where they're made. But I will not buy one. To be successful as a premium manufacturer you have to offer more then just a bike. It has to connect with the buyers in a way that makes them willing to pay more for your product then what they would pay for an ordinary one from a mass producer. I could have bought two bikes for what I paid for my Griso. I bought a Griso because I wanted a premium, hand built motorcycle that I connected with. I would hate to see them leave Mandello. It would not be a step forward. I don't think it would be the end of Guzzi, but it would be a step in that direction. But recently they have made a few steps in that direction, like the decision to no longer warranty certain things like broken body panels. If you pay a premium price for a bike, you expect to be treated like a premium customer. That is where the accountants don't get it a can kill and company buy cutting corners and saving costs in the short term but losing business in the long run. Ducati learned that lesson. Will Guzzi?

As I mentioned, I had an injector stick open (on a Buell) and the final solution was to replace it. By this point the injector needs to be replaced in my opinion and anything in a can will only delay the inevitable. You could send the injector off to someone who actually cleans and flow tests them, but that could be more money then replacing it.

I think you're right about the 8 valve being more raw and visceral. But I was refering to the Griso 1100 which is more relaxed and refined. The chassis of my Griso is also softer and less precise then the chassis on my wifes V11 and on a dyno my Griso 1100 has less power then my wifes V11 but only due to the motor work our V11 has. My Griso has more power then our V11 had to start with. I probably would haved prefered to have an 8 valve Griso but it didn't even exist when I gought my Griso. I really wanted the prototype with the 8 valve motor and in some ways the new 8 valve is that and more. But for me it is too late, I can't justify another Griso and I'm not good at selling bikes. Better at buying.