slowkitty Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Hiya ... Strange episode, still unsolved. I ride my Scura about once a week, about 40 km usually. Rode the bike without issue, parked it. Stopped riding for about 15 mins, came back to the bike, turned it on, tried starting, no pop no nothing but headlight went off, no signals and horn. neutral light went too. After a while the neutral light faded back on but all symptoms continued. Starter is quite dead, tried starting with side-stand up too. Then I picked up buzzing from the row of relays, and when I put my finger on the relays, there is a slight buzz. Will hunt for suitable relays to change, but my guess is that changing that may help, or is the buzzing normal and I am barking up the wrong tree? I've checked that the battery's nuts are secured and tight, and fuses ok too. Took a cab home. Any similar experience? Will change the relays this weekend. Cheers Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macguzzi Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Starter solinoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowkitty Posted October 26, 2007 Author Share Posted October 26, 2007 Will try replacing the relays first; as the bike is down in a hospital car-park as of now. Just realised that the relays are essentially 1 x V223073 (Simens), 3 x V23074 (Tyco - 4 pin) and 1 x V23074 (5-pin - Tyco) Question: Can I replace all of the relays with the the 5-pin GEI that Dan carries? Sorry if the question seems dumb or basic. Cheers Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryland3210 Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 The one clue I want to respond to is the neutral light going off when attempting to start, and then slowly coming back on. If you were not holding the start button on while the light was slowly coming back on, it sounds like a loose connection to the battery, or a very weak battery. Relays can buzz if the circuit is trying to energize them with a weak battery. What happens is that when the relay turns on, it drags the battery voltage down, so it turns off. But then the battery is not loaded as much, so the voltage climbs back up and energizes the relay. The cycle repeats itself and causes the buzz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callison Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 The one clue I want to respond to is the neutral light going off when attempting to start, and then slowly coming back on. If you were not holding the start button on while the light was slowly coming back on, it sounds like a loose connection to the battery, or a very weak battery. Relays can buzz if the circuit is trying to energize them with a weak battery. What happens is that when the relay turns on, it drags the battery voltage down, so it turns off. But then the battery is not loaded as much, so the voltage climbs back up and energizes the relay. The cycle repeats itself and causes the buzz. What he said. Battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emry Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 I triple that motion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRENTTODD Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 no doubt buy a battery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil_P Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 no doubt buy a battery Preferably an AGM battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowkitty Posted October 26, 2007 Author Share Posted October 26, 2007 Will dismantle the battery and charge it. Supposely a new batt; perhaps not charged enuff due to once a week usage? No, the neutral light was off when i turned the ignition, never touch the starter until it was full green. Cheers Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryland3210 Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Will dismantle the battery and charge it. Supposely a new batt; perhaps not charged enuff due to once a week usage? No, the neutral light was off when i turned the ignition, never touch the starter until it was full green. Cheers Cat The battery voltage will tell you how much charge it has. A rough guide is fully charged at 12.65 volts. Zero charge at 11.6 volts. This voltage must be measured after the battery has sat for several hours. The voltage will read high just after charging, so you have to wait for this "surface charge" to drain off. If it has been ridden, you can also drain off this surface charge by shutting the engine off, and keeping the headlight on for 3 minutes. Then shut everthing off and measure the voltage. If the voltage shows that the battery is charged, but it dies when you try to start, the battery is dead. If it is new, it has probably been sitting on a shelf for a couple of years. This will cause it to permanently lose its capacity, and will behave like a much smaller battery. Usually this is not something that can be cured, and a new battery is required. Make sure the new battery has come fresh from the factory. I bring my voltmeter along when buying a battery so I know how much of its charge has been lost while sitting in inventory. It makes a big difference in capacity and life. It's like buying fresh milk instead of stale. The better batteries have date codes on them, like our dairy products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryland3210 Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Will try replacing the relays first; as the bike is down in a hospital car-park as of now. Just realised that the relays are essentially 1 x V223073 (Simens), 3 x V23074 (Tyco - 4 pin) and 1 x V23074 (5-pin - Tyco) Question: Can I replace all of the relays with the the 5-pin GEI that Dan carries? Sorry if the question seems dumb or basic. Cheers Cat This is not to detract from the battery suspicion, but just to answer this question: Experience of others on this forum indicate that Tyco's are more reliable than Siemens. The GEI's are popular. They are made in China. My bike came with five Tyco's. Four of the relay circuits use only four of the pins. The five pin circuit for the starter solenoid is the only one using all five pins. According to the shop manual schematic, the five pin relays will plug in place of the four pin and simply not use the extra pin. That means you can keep a five pin relay and use it as a spare in any location. I keep a five pin Omron, made in the U.S.A., as a spare, taped to the frame next to the five working relays. Also, my spare fuse was only a ten amp unit. That's not enough to replace the starter 30 amp fuse, so I keep a couple spares of that rating with me too. If you buy any relays, make sure they are the sealed type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Again, not to detract from the thread (sounds like a weak battery), but what is the status of the Omron relays? Ryland would you mind posting on the 'Nasty Hiccup-GEI relay failure" thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I would have thought relays except for the neutral slowly coming back. Being able to start after a week of sitting sounds like good battery. But being unable to start after a ride sounds like a bad charging system. Check the 30A fuse for signs of melting. The connections between alternator and battery are critical. But if you are on the original battery (spark500), you might want to replace it just for good luck. If bad it could be causing charging problems, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowkitty Posted October 31, 2007 Author Share Posted October 31, 2007 I would have thought relays except for the neutral slowly coming back. Being able to start after a week of sitting sounds like good battery. But being unable to start after a ride sounds like a bad charging system. Check the 30A fuse for signs of melting. The connections between alternator and battery are critical. But if you are on the original battery (spark500), you might want to replace it just for good luck. If bad it could be causing charging problems, too. Update: Charged up the battery (overnight, no less), plugged in back it. Got my headlight (dim) back, no signals nor horn, neutral light and red oil light upon turn of key. Clicking of one of the 5 relays audible. No turning over of starter too when I thumbed the starter button. Headlight then dim some more. Next play .. towed the bike to my mechanic's; plan is to try a jump start. The plot continues ......... Cheers Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Your problems suggest that you should not bother with jump starting just yet. If the battery didn't charge off the bike, its unlikely to charge on the bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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