Guest Wyllough Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Is there some way of accessing the Phil West MCN review of the V7 Classic? I'm registered with MCN but can't find this article. If someone could provide a link I'd be eternally grateful. "Phil’s full test report on the Moto Guzzi V7 in MCN on May 21, 2008". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 Saw one in the flesh for the first time today. Don't like the flat fin arrangement on the cylinder's front profile, the finish seems quite poor, and overall it just looked a bit cheap. They need to do a bigger version too. Something 'substantial'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Here's a V7 Classic "first ride". The reviewer seemed to really like it! http://www.motorcycledaily.com/30june08_20...g_v7classic.htm I like it much better than the Nevada and Breva on which it is based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve G. Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 The latest Motorcyclist magazine [August] has just done a test on this bike. They like it, but they basically summed up the test by saying "call us back when you put a big block engine in it". Pretty well summs up my thoughts as well. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeve Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 The latest Motorcyclist magazine [August] has just done a test on this bike. They like it, but they basically summed up the test by saying "call us back when you put a big block engine in it". Pretty well summs up my thoughts as well. Steve You're not alone! The V7 Classic is the right bike at the wrong time: w/ the $ in the bucket vs. foreign currencies, the V7C is too ex$pen$ive in comparison w/ its competition, esp. for what's delivered in terms of performance. If Moto Guzzi (Piaggio) had delivered this 10 years ago, they would have had a runaway hit on their hands; if they'd chosen the big block motor as a base, they could still have had a hit in today's market. Pity, 'cause it's a nice bike, but I predict they're going to sit on dealer floors until the dollar rebounds and they're EOL discounted & then BAM! they'll all be out the door on the road... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocker59 Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 You're not alone! The V7 Classic is the right bike at the wrong time: w/ the $ in the bucket vs. foreign currencies, the V7C is too ex$pen$ive in comparison w/ its competition, esp. for what's delivered in terms of performance. If Moto Guzzi (Piaggio) had delivered this 10 years ago, they would have had a runaway hit on their hands; if they'd chosen the big block motor as a base, they could still have had a hit in today's market. Pity, 'cause it's a nice bike, but I predict they're going to sit on dealer floors until the dollar rebounds and they're EOL discounted & then BAM! they'll all be out the door on the road... Tell us more... What's its price? What's its competition? What's its competition's price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeve Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Tell us more... What's its price? What's its competition? What's its competition's price? Middleweight twins. We've already heard that it's likely to be around $8k [admittedly, rumour, but surprisingly low given the plummeting $ on forex markets.] Suzuki and Kawasaki both have 650cc twins that come with (gasp!) two front discs, standard size rubber [admittedly, the spoke wheels on the V7C affect the rubber options] and significantly lower entry costs while delivering better performance. [The SV with ABS MSRP is under $7k!] The same bike based upon the Bellagio big-twin with the V7C's styling job would be able to sell at $9k easily, but I foresee Guzzi having a hard time moving the V7C at the "doorbuster" (for Piaggio) $8k price when it can't deliver the value [always critical in an "entry level" machine] that the SV650 or even the 883 Sportster [at $7k] does. I'd love to be proven wrong. Time will tell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocker59 Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Middleweight twins. We've already heard that it's likely to be around $8k [admittedly, rumour, but surprisingly low given the plummeting $ on forex markets.] Suzuki and Kawasaki both have 650cc twins that come with (gasp!) two front discs, standard size rubber [admittedly, the spoke wheels on the V7C affect the rubber options] and significantly lower entry costs while delivering better performance. [The SV with ABS MSRP is under $7k!] The same bike based upon the Bellagio big-twin with the V7C's styling job would be able to sell at $9k easily, but I foresee Guzzi having a hard time moving the V7C at the "doorbuster" (for Piaggio) $8k price when it can't deliver the value [always critical in an "entry level" machine] that the SV650 or even the 883 Sportster [at $7k] does. I'd love to be proven wrong. Time will tell... OK. First off, I guess by "standard size", you mean 120/70-17 front and 170/60-17 rear? I would agree that those are "standard sportsbike sizes", but if you look at the bike's competition none of them have those sizes. Bonneville and Sportster. Bikes like Ducati's SportClassics do come in "standard sportsbike sizes" with spokes and tubes. It's nothing new, because so did Triumph's Thunderbird Sport ten years ago. A big block version of this bike would list for $13490 here. There is no way Guzzi could sell a big block in the USA for $9k. I really don't consider the liquid-cooled SV650 naked sportsbike as competition for the V7 Classic. A customer shopping for a lightweight japanese sportsbike will not be cross-shopping the Guzzi. Also possibly riders who are into vintage bikes, but would like something reliable for everyday use... My guess is that, as usual with Guzzis here in the USA, this new small block will sell mainly to the Guzzi faithful. There may be some defectors from the Bonneville ranks. Possibly a few n00b riders who have been cross shopping Sportsters, but who are not faithful to the HD brand... The person shopping for something European. Something standard/traditional/retro. Something lightweight. Something affordable. That will be the V7Classic's customer... I can't imagine Guzzi bringing more than a hundred, or so, over here the first year. Selling them should be no problem... I guess we shall soon see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest frankdugo Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 while oggiling the brunett sitting on one at the bike show,noticed there are no head-guards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocker59 Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 while oggiling the brunett sitting on one at the bike show,noticed there are no head-guards. Crash bars will be available. The ones pictured below look classic. H+B have some for the Nevada that will probably fit the V7Classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeve Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 A big block version of this bike would list for $13490 here. There is no way Guzzi could sell a big block in the USA for $9k. Why? Are the big blocks that much more complicated than the small blocks? No. Because it would undercut their profit margin? This is just exec decisions; do you really think the 600cc hyperbikes cost that much less to build than their 1000cc, otherwise identical technologically, big brothers do? Enough to justify the usual $2000 price differential? Horsefeathers! It's just what's done to increase profitability [not that that's a bad thing.] Guzzi is already making a "small" big block for the 850 Griso & Bellagio models sold in Europe; economies of scale dictate that it would be in Piaggio's interest to eliminate the small blocks entirely and standardize on the big block motor across all models, if only because it would make type certification for EPA simpler (less expensive) and unit cost for all big block derivations fall substantially. But, with the graduated licensing schemes common elsewhere, there may be a better market for the small blocks than I am aware of. I'm just saying that your argument doesn't hold up, and that a product targeting the nostalgia market [which has historically been an American exclusive; our friends across the Pond are more sensible than we are! ] should be more focused. Ipso facto, it's not so much a nostalgia bike as an introductory model. I really don't consider the liquid-cooled SV650 naked sportsbike as competition for the V7 Classic. A customer shopping for a lightweight japanese sportsbike will not be cross-shopping the Guzzi. Also possibly riders who are into vintage bikes, but would like something reliable for everyday use... You might not, but the introductory shoppers this model is aimed at sure do! Who's going to buy the V7 Classic? Recividist Guzzisti looking for another bike? Not hardly; they're shopping the big blocks! People looking for a "vintage" look? Maybe, but they'd likely have rather bought the same version in a big block too. The market for this model are the readers of the SBL (short bikers list), who'll be shopping based on value and seat height; yes, it will help draw some attention to Guzzi because of that, but seriously, the V7 Classic will sell mostly to the short of inseam provided it can deliver better perceived value than it's competition. My guess is that, as usual with Guzzis here in the USA, this new small block will sell mainly to the Guzzi faithful. There may be some defectors from the Bonneville ranks. Possibly a few n00b riders who have been cross shopping Sportsters, but who are not faithful to the HD brand... But the new small block sales have rarely been to the Guzzi faithful, historically, they have been to new purchasers of the marque. The person shopping for something European. Something standard/traditional/retro. Something lightweight. Something affordable. That will be the V7Classic's customer... The person shopping for something standard, lightweight & affordable w/ a low seat height. European comes last. Sorry, that's just the reality for most buyers. You & I admire the Guzzi ethic, but we're already sold, aren't we? I can't imagine Guzzi bringing more than a hundred, or so, over here the first year. Selling them should be no problem... I guess we shall soon see... Only bringing in 100 of a new model? Mebbe. Recipe for disaster if you ask me. Better to go the "preorders only" route if that's the case. Eh, I guess I'm starting to grow accustomed to the U.S. being treated as a 3rd world country motorcycle-wise. Like I said, I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see the V7C having the effect that Guzzi would like, at least here in the USA. Maybe if someone can figure out how to order the 4v heads from the Predator motors out of the milspec supply line and sort out how to retrofit them to the V7C it will develop a cult following? No doubt it's a great little bike, but I just suspect that the traditionally too-heavily-influenced-by-spec-sheet American buyers are going to stay away in droves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocker59 Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Why? Are the big blocks that much more complicated than the small blocks? No. Because it would undercut their profit margin? This is just exec decisions; do you really think the 600cc hyperbikes cost that much less to build than their 1000cc, otherwise identical technologically, big brothers do? Enough to justify the usual $2000 price differential? Horsefeathers! It's just what's done to increase profitability [not that that's a bad thing.]Guzzi is already making a "small" big block for the 850 Griso & Bellagio models sold in Europe; economies of scale dictate that it would be in Piaggio's interest to eliminate the small blocks entirely and standardize on the big block motor across all models, if only because it would make type certification for EPA simpler (less expensive) and unit cost for all big block derivations fall substantially. But, with the graduated licensing schemes common elsewhere, there may be a better market for the small blocks than I am aware of. I'm just saying that your argument doesn't hold up, and that a product targeting the nostalgia market [which has historically been an American exclusive; our friends across the Pond are more sensible than we are! ] should be more focused. Ipso facto, it's not so much a nostalgia bike as an introductory model. The smallblock platform is paid for. It makes good economic sense to freshen it and get as much life from it as possible. While I agree that streamlining to a big block only lineup might show some economies of scale, the 850s weigh the same as the 1100/1200 bikes and really won't appeal to those wanting a small motorcycle. You might not, but the introductory shoppers this model is aimed at sure do! Who's going to buy the V7 Classic? Recividist Guzzisti looking for another bike? Not hardly; they're shopping the big blocks! People looking for a "vintage" look? Maybe, but they'd likely have rather bought the same version in a big block too. The market for this model are the readers of the SBL (short bikers list), who'll be shopping based on value and seat height; yes, it will help draw some attention to Guzzi because of that, but seriously, the V7 Classic will sell mostly to the short of inseam provided it can deliver better perceived value than it's competition. I wasn't aware that the SV650 was sold mainly to introductory shoppers. Older sportsbike guys is who I see on 'em. Lots of 'em at trackdays, too... I've never heard of the SBL, but I'd imagine this bike's 805mm/32-inch seat will knock most of them out if they're looking at lowered Sportsters with 24-inch seats. But the new small block sales have rarely been to the Guzzi faithful, historically, they have been to new purchasers of the marque. I think this retro-styled bike will sell to both new owners and Guzzi faithful. The person shopping for something standard, lightweight & affordable w/ a low seat height. European comes last. Sorry, that's just the reality for most buyers. You & I admire the Guzzi ethic, but we're already sold, aren't we? Yes, and that is why European bikes' sales volume is a fraction of what HD and JapCo are. Only bringing in 100 of a new model? Mebbe. Recipe for disaster if you ask me. Better to go the "preorders only" route if that's the case. Eh, I guess I'm starting to grow accustomed to the U.S. being treated as a 3rd world country motorcycle-wise. Like I said, I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see the V7C having the effect that Guzzi would like, at least here in the USA. Maybe if someone can figure out how to order the 4v heads from the Predator motors out of the milspec supply line and sort out how to retrofit them to the V7C it will develop a cult following? No doubt it's a great little bike, but I just suspect that the traditionally too-heavily-influenced-by-spec-sheet American buyers are going to stay away in droves. Guzzi's imports to the USA are in the 1,100/1,200 units range. No one model is imported in very large numbers in any given year. I would be pleasantly surprised if the V7 Classic was imported in a volume exceeing 200 units for MY 2009. What effect is it that Guzzi would like this new bike to have here in the USA? I've not seen any mission statement. I think it will be a nice addition to the lineup, but I don't believe it will be the sales leader by any stretch. I don't know what kind of bike could be a "homerun" for Guzzi in the USA, but it would probably have to be a really kick-ass big block. Either a 1000S-type bike or an MGS-01-type bike that was priced competiively with Ducati's SportClassics... Good discussion we're having here. I'm hoping that the V7 Classic is a "toe dipped in the water" of the market and that we'll see its big block sister at EICMA this fall... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeve Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 I'm hoping that the V7 Classic is a "toe dipped in the water" of the market and that we'll see its big block sister at EICMA this fall... That is something very much to be hoped for! I think Guzzi hit a home run w/ the styling of the V7C, but I worry about the "let's test it in the small block and then follow up" mentality that brought us the Brevona might lead to canceling plans for a big block version if the 750 doesn't meet sales objectives that would have been exceeded if it had just been brought out in a big block from the beginning. To be sure, I hope my lackluster forecasts for the V7C are all wrong, 'cause I truly think it is a very well-styled bike [there's a lot of us middling-old phartz out there who long for the simple UJM style of bikes of our youth, but with the more soulful character of the Guzzi v-2; why do you think the 1000S is such a cult bike? Rarity, shmarity: people want them to ride!] but won't consider it a replacement for anything I'm currently riding, whereas w/ a big block it would be a real contender. Slap that styling on the Bellagio running gear and bring it over, I say! Guzzi will have a bigger seller than the Cali Vintage, and one that I doubt will be cutting into the sales of any of their other current models... and that's not a bad thing at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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