c20500 Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Had an issue where I resorted to someone helping me bump start the bike today when for some reason the starter wouldn't activate. In neutral, side stand up, clutch in, kill switch in start position and no go. I didn't hear a relay click either other than the fuel pump activating. is the starter relay with all the other opposite the fuses or is it closer to the starter? Perhaps I have a contact on the starter switch going bad as when I got her home it started up repeatedly. This is a 2004 V11 sport naked. Appreciate any feedback Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagehenry Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Common "easy check" issues are the neutral switch, down on the left side of trans, the sidestand safety switch needs cleaning or a pair of bullet connectors for the clutch safety switch which sometimes need cleaning and a slight crimping to facilitate the connection. Also, unrelated but in the same vein, check the two connectors on the yellow wires looping from the alternator to regulator, as these can also need cleaning/crimping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 The most likely culprit is the clutch switch or its flinky 'bullet' connectors under the left forward side of the tank. SH drives home a good point that there are quite a few connectors that could use a good clean and crimp! No doubt, you should be certain your relays have been upgraded to either OMRON or GEI. If she does it again, try twisting the bars full left and full right, attempting to engage the starter at various points. Success would surely implicate the connections for the clutch switch. Flow chart for function: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan M Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 If it is intermittent you most likely have a loose/dirty connection or dirty contact in a switch. When it is not acting up you will not find it but it would be prudent to go through the circuit and clean / tighten connections. If it does happen again and you can hear the relay clicking, begin checking at the starter looking for voltage with the button pushed and go backwards (using Doc's chart) until you find the culprit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Some riders carry maps in their tankbag, but the Sport keeps that flow chart in its "map" pocket (and Carl Allison's wiring diagram)! No one is ever so lost as when their electrons cannot find their way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c20500 Posted March 3, 2010 Author Share Posted March 3, 2010 Thanks for all your replys. The neutral switch then just prevents the starter from engaging right? Would it matter if I was maybe in a false neutral? Must be as I wouldn't have been able to bump start it. I will go thru and clean up all the connections in the circut. I'm just not used to a bike with these safety features. I think I will wire an override switch close to the starter just in case it ever happens again. Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Actually, the Neutral Switch provides power to the Run Switch through the middle relay. If the bike will bump off then it is getting power to run. To complicate matters, the alternate power path to run is through the Sidestand Switch which does NOT go through a relay. So, with the bike in neutral and the sidestand up, you should hear the whir of the fuel pump. If then, thumbing the starter switch does nothing, the clutch switch is suspect. Try turning the bars back and forth attempting to rethumb the starter. Try spraying a contact cleaner between the switch and lever (or take the lever out and clean up the area without loosing the little puck or ball between the switch and lever). Finally, you might have to remove the tank and refit the bullet connectors for the clutch switch as they are notorious. If the bike is in neutral, sidestand up and you get nothing (no whir/nothing), put the stabnd down and try again. If she then starts, the trouble is either the Neutral Switch (try remove/clean/replace or switch to Redline gearlube or replace the switch) or it's the middle relay (make sure you have upgraded relays and the contacts are good; relay swapping or relay wiggling could help but is temporary). Just for kicks, note that the middle relay is called the "sidestand relay" but it is actaully activated by the neutral switch. Let us know what you find . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c20500 Posted March 4, 2010 Author Share Posted March 4, 2010 It seems to do it only when hot after being ridden and not when stone cold. I have yet to pull the tank and check on those connectors... When it didn't activate the starter today after a 30 minute ride just after filling up, I used my bypass starter switch and of course it started. I shut it off immediately and it restarted via the regular method... something isn't flowing when heated. When some good voltage goes through the circuit, it seems to restart fine. Obviously not enough or any voltage is reaching the starter relay in the non start condition as the relay doesn't click. It's an 04 so I would think the relays are the upgraded ones..? I'll pull the tank tomorrow to get at those bullet connectors! Thanks Charles Actually, the Neutral Switch provides power to the Run Switch through the middle relay. If the bike will bump off then it is getting power to run. To complicate matters, the alternate power path to run is through the Sidestand Switch which does NOT go through a relay. So, with the bike in neutral and the sidestand up, you should hear the whir of the fuel pump. If then, thumbing the starter switch does nothing, the clutch switch is suspect. Try turning the bars back and forth attempting to rethumb the starter. Try spraying a contact cleaner between the switch and lever (or take the lever out and clean up the area without loosing the little puck or ball between the switch and lever). Finally, you might have to remove the tank and refit the bullet connectors for the clutch switch as they are notorious. If the bike is in neutral, sidestand up and you get nothing (no whir/nothing), put the stabnd down and try again. If she then starts, the trouble is either the Neutral Switch (try remove/clean/replace or switch to Redline gearlube or replace the switch) or it's the middle relay (make sure you have upgraded relays and the contacts are good; relay swapping or relay wiggling could help but is temporary). Just for kicks, note that the middle relay is called the "sidestand relay" but it is actaully activated by the neutral switch. Let us know what you find . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 It's an 04 so I would think the relays are the upgraded ones..? Nope. All of the V11 factory relays are somewhat suspect. For a long time on this forum the standard response to many electrical problems is change all of the relays, and it does seem to solve a lot of problems. Even though I didn't have any electrical problems when I bought my used V11 I swapped all the relays for GEIs from Dan P and haven't regretted it. No relay problems for me in 5 years. The two best sources for quality replacements are www.dpguzzi.com/relay.htm and www.motratech.com . You can replace both your 4 pin and 5 pin relays with a full set of five 5 pin relays from either of these vendors and avoid a lot of grief and aggravation that some here have gone through due to flaky factory parts. Going to all 5 pin relays also allows you to swap any of the relays around if you suspect a problem. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c20500 Posted March 6, 2010 Author Share Posted March 6, 2010 After checking, I do have the Tyco relays but I ordered GEI's today. Guess I could have installed a standard 30amp spdt automotive relay with a pigtail on the 1st one that gets double abuse from the headlight circuit... next would probably add a sep. relay for the headlight... Nope. All of the V11 factory relays are somewhat suspect. For a long time on this forum the standard response to many electrical problems is change all of the relays, and it does seem to solve a lot of problems. Even though I didn't have any electrical problems when I bought my used V11 I swapped all the relays for GEIs from Dan P and haven't regretted it. No relay problems for me in 5 years. The two best sources for quality replacements are www.dpguzzi.com/relay.htm and www.motratech.com . You can replace both your 4 pin and 5 pin relays with a full set of five 5 pin relays from either of these vendors and avoid a lot of grief and aggravation that some here have gone through due to flaky factory parts. Going to all 5 pin relays also allows you to swap any of the relays around if you suspect a problem. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c20500 Posted April 6, 2010 Author Share Posted April 6, 2010 I finally found out why it would not start when hot.... Neutral Switch... I tapped the shifter a little and the starter came to life. Funny thing is that the neutral light was on when the starter didn't activate. Does this mean that the switch just may be out of alignment? or just needs replacing? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi_Roy Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 I finally found out why it would not start when hot.... Neutral Switch... I tapped the shifter a little and the starter came to life. Funny thing is that the neutral light was on when the starter didn't activate. Does this mean that the switch just may be out of alignment? or just needs replacing? Thanks It may be the switch contacts just making enough to power the light but with too much resistance for the starter coil. Take a look at the schematic I posted under topic "Simple Wiring Schematic". It shows the way things are connected in series If you have a multimeter you should read 12V at TP-h when you press the start button. If not unplug the relay R3 TP-b is before the Neutral switch, TP-c after. If you think its the neutral switch try jumpering from TP-b to TP-c with a short piece of wire thus bu-passing that whole circuit. A word of warning, make doubly sure the bike is in Neutral. Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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