Guest JohnInNH Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 "Build it and they will come." I can't believe this! I think it would pay off. It would work on more than just the Le Mans GRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr They seem to only really care about the Harleys only anyway, cuz of the $ HD wanna be's waste on just about anything. Especially if it's Harley Only! :finger: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callison Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 Hey Al. My heads only got to Mike Rich this week, so I won't be seeing them for a verrryyyy long time. If you want to borrow my Cliff Jeffries computer you're welcome to try it. At least it is fully configurable for timing and everything. You need a PC to do it though and I haven't picked on up yet. You'd also have to do some clip leading to hook it up. The plus side is that your ECU won't be involved so it can't be damaged in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_roethlisberger Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 Thanks Carl, but I think that might be tricky to get a map going from scratch?? I don't think anyone around here would have the experience to map it from scratch, and although I've talked to Cliff about the possibilities of using his ECU... he only supposed it "should" be able to hook up to the harness with some modifications since it uses a differenct connector. But that seems kinda scary to me... al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callison Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 It has a map, but the timing curve would need to be retarded about 8 degrees for the dual plugs. Wiring is not really such a big issue, but it's very understandable that you might be reluctant to be the first V11 Sport "victim". That said, I have harbored the notion of obtaining the proper connector and building another cable so I can try it out on my V11 Sport. I was just willing to let you be the first is all... In any event, I will eventually be going down the same path with my Sport 1100i and I'm pretty certain that any map derived for a dual plugged Sport 1100i would function pretty close to the same on a dual plugged V11 Sport. If I could get a V11 Sport exhaust system for my Sport 1100i, it would be the same. The only differences between the two engines is the location of the oil temperature sensor. Actually, this is a bit of a white lie. The combustion chambers on the V11 Sport are a bit different (more developed) and the compression is higher. After the two different types of heads have been ported though, those differences would become a moot point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 The V11Sport and the V1100Sporti require different power commanders, so I suspect they are not interchangeable without knowing the wiring changes and possibly sensor resistances or voltage outputs.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 The ECUs used are different but the way they connect to the bike is nearly identical as far as I can see from the schematics. Why don't you connect it to your V11 Carl, you know you want '' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callison Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 Dave, there are no functional differences between the PCIII's for Sport 1100i's and V11 Sports. The programs are likely to be a tad different because the engine characteristics are a tad different. The connectors used on the Sport 1100i ECU are out of production though, so there is no way an after market manufacturer can build a product based on it. So, the Power Commander people elected to use wiring that attached at the injector because those connectors are plentiful. If fact, they used better ones the Moto Guzzi did. The only awkward part was the splice connector used on the TPS. But they did achieve the goal of producing an add on that did not require modification of the original wiring harness. I'm one hundred percent certain that if I went out in my garage and changed the connector on my Sport 1100i to that of the V11 Sport, that I could simply plug in the ECU from the V11 Sport and ride off. Not optimally perhaps, but pretty damn close. To be the same, I could yank the barrels off of the V11 Sport along with the pistons and heads and it would be the same, but I'd have adapt the harness to the new oil temp sensor or use the Sport 1100i left valve cover. That's how close these two beasts are in that department. From 1999 through part of the 2001 model V11 Sport production runs, the front part of the frame was still carrying the brackets used on the Sport 1100i/Daytona RS series for the frame mounted fairing. The V11 Sport is a beautiful evolution of the predecessor spine frames, but not an entirely new bike. The engine is even still 1.4 centimeters to the right of centerline as it was on the spine frames. That was necessary for tire clearance on the earlier spine frames, unneccessary on the 6 speed but left unchanged. I think Paul could point out in real detail just how close the lineage of these things are since he's put the 6 speed and swingarm on his Daytona from a V11 Sport. Cliff, if I can find a connector and get the proper air pressure sensor to add to the My16M board, I'll make the cable to try it out. I just haven't been doing too much along those lines because it embarrasses me to walk out into the garage and see the Sport 1100i out there with no heads. If I had been a bit less lax about torqueing the heads on a regular schedule, I probably would not have had to send them out for re-work. Mea Culpa. On the other hand, I'll be getting an upgraded part and now the Bugswatter won't feel so anemic compared to the V11 Sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_roethlisberger Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 Hrmm, that would be interesting.... if someone found/made an adapter such that Cliff's ECU could be just plugged-in to a V11 Sport harness, then I'd be more willing to give it a try. But again, I wonder who out here could economically make a map for the V11 Sport... since no one has experience with the software, etc.. al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 Carl, the connector is just a cable mounting centronics printer plug. For testing purposes you could fudge the pressure sensor with a potentiometer. If you want I could send you over another harness and a pressure sensor I have, or perhaps you'd like another my16M with the pressure sensor already installed If you can send me some photos of the 15M ECU and cabling that would be good. You may even be able to get some part numbers off the current plugs. It wouldn't be to hard for me to layout another PCB to suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callison Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 The Centronics connector is a non issue. The WM unit is the problem. I looked at the male plug that the PCIII uses to plug into it, and the only markings are "T & B" and "2105". A search of the Thomas & Betts web site reveals only industrial electrical products and no electronic connectors. That was my 3 minute assessment. I'll put more time into it later. For now, I'll just say that I'm pretty certain that this "T & B" does not stand for Thomas & Betts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 Here is a cool product: http://www.webbikeworld.com/Reviewed-motor...ucts/posi-lock/ Looks like the next best thing to solder and shrink tubing! So would you need something like 20 of them and OE type connector. I would not know which wire to map where. Maybe it is not as difficult as I fear. Other concerns are the resistence values of the temperature sensors and most importantly the TPS and EPS. I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callison Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 If I'm building an adapter cable, the connector will come with pins. I might have to locate a crimper (because the kind I suspect is required is very expensive and I don't want to buy one for an experiment), but locating the connector is still the initial issue (the second issue is finding enough colors of wire, Radio Shack doesn't carry diddly). I don't believe I would ever choose these these twist on splices (nifty as they are) because I would solder before going to a very bulky set of mechanical connections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtucker Posted May 24, 2003 Author Share Posted May 24, 2003 Hey guys! Long time, no chat! Glad to see this thread is still going strong. Unfortunately, I've got *nothing* new to report here. The local shop that got my dinged up head last November to re-finish it... STILL HAS IT! :finger: Some serious feet-dragging going on there. Latest word is that they are finally in the process of finishing it up. I'll believe it when I see it. Usually, I wouldn't let things go this long, but as it turns out, I've had plenty to keep me busy, so I haven't been obsessing over the bike so much. Not to mention, the weather so far this year has been crap, so... no big loss for me. I guess it's the "Summer of the MINI" for me! If I ever get the head back, I'm going to cut bait and just have the work finished up installing the parts that I have on hand... carillo rods and Raceco timing gears. I guess I'll wait until next winter to make another go at the head work. Bah! Hopefully, this thread will still be going by the time I get my bike back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_roethlisberger Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 ....WOW!! .... I thought maybe aliens had abducted you Jason Sorry to hear that the shop is taking so long on your head-work, that's really odd. The last we had heard, I thought it was "lost in transit" on it's way BACK from the shop so that then you could ship it to Mike! What happened? And yes, this thread is still going strong. In fact, it's something of a joke lately, the longevity of this thread Well, I guess we trailblazers in the area of dual-plugging are doomed to wait a year or so for the process to come to fruition fully. I still have to do some final double-checking on the coils, and find someone(or something like Cliff's ECU with an adapter) that can remap the ignition for sure. Plus, since I've JUST got the bike back, I don't want to tear into anything for right now. I want things to "settle" before more tinkering further Well, let us know it goes once everything is back. Sorry to hear that you've had these delays... amazing..... it's been months and months it seems and all they had to do was weld a fin or two and repaint it. In hindsight, I bet Mike could have done that for you?? Ah well al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_roethlisberger Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 Ding Dong the witch is dead, "which old witch?" ... the damned "...which coils to use for dual-plugging a V11 LeMans... witch... that's what f#@!king witch!!" Check this out: Van: werkplaats Verzonden: maandag 23 juni 2003 14:26 Aan: 'Al Roethlisberger' Onderwerp: RE: Question for dual-plugged Mogo Guzzi V11 LeMans Hello AL, Sorry you had to wait a little for our answer, but we just had our annual fair which took up a lot of our time. To answer your questions: Indeed, we have twin-sparked multiple V11's. The coils we usually mount are the following: our part number: 307165000010 ; Magneti Marelli coils ; they cost EUR 103 each. When fitting those you do not need to change the timing, or anything else. The solution we use is " plug-and-play". So the cables fit in the original wiring harness. As far known issues, we can be short: there have been none so far. We can ship the coils you need, wherever you need them. So let us know what you want us to do. If you want to order them please send an e-mail to our parts division: parts@tlm.nl They need your credit card details, including the CVC-code for shipment and billing. We hope this answers your questions. Ciao, Ben. .... I can't tell you how relieved I am. Jason, are you getting this? Looking at the stock coils, I just *KNEW* there had to be a dual-tower version... you could see the "dimple" on the stock units where the second tower goes. This is just great! I sent them a whole list of other questions about their not worrying about retarding/advancing timing, octane requirements, whatever other "lessons learned", etc... but they make it sound very plug & play, so we'll see. I'll let everyone know how it goes. MAN, I'm excited al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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