kenr Posted November 19, 2004 Author Share Posted November 19, 2004 Belfastguzzi - thanks for the pic - this will help me make sure I find out exactly what they have changed. rktman1 - thanks also for the advice. If I still have a problem when I get the bike back I will definitely try this, although I can imagine it is going to be difficult to change the habit. I did wonder if it was my technique and tried to be really precise with the gearchange, etc but I certainly didnt try this yet .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janusz Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 This is how he told me to shift: 1) Pull in the clutch 2) Lift up on the shift lever 3) Let out the clutch 4) Release the shift lever You'll notice steps 3) and 4) are reversed. I've ignored the throttle manipulation here. Anyhow, I started shifting this way ( I was very clumsy for a while) and I almost never miss an upshift anymore. I still can't shift as fast as I used to but that's not as important as it used to be. This may help. Tim in Tucson (an old dog can sometimes learn a new trick) BTW: I currently have an 03 LeMans, an 04 ST4S-A, and an 01 CBR929RR. 37562[/snapback] If you eliminate from your procedure points 1) and 3) and time your 2) and 4) with throttle snap then, and only then you will be able to achieve the real upshifting nirvana. I guarantee you will never go back to unnecessary clutch manipulations. And this is not about speed but about coordination, smoothness and precision. Efficiency, satisfaction and elegance. Speed comes as a bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rktman1 Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Janusz, I believe you. You're no doubt a better rider than I am. It took me several weeks to get used to "pre-loading" the shifter and maybe some day I'll experiment with "clutchless" shifting (on someone else's bike?). Sometimes I pre-load on downshifts but mostly I use a small blip of the throttle. Another thing that I had to re-teach myself to do was to "cover" the front brake while still manipulating the throttle. This also took several weeks to get used to. I still go back to using my entire right hand when I deem the ride is safer but I always go back to covering the brake when I'm in traffic or coming to a stop. Now if I could keep from looking in the rear view mirror too much... Sometimes I pay more attention to what's going on behind me than what's going on in front of me. Not good. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janusz Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Janusz, I believe you. You're no doubt a better rider than I am. 37619[/snapback] Please, don't talk like that. It is embarassing, probably not true and also irrelevant for sure. The proper shifting technique is NOT difficult at all. The opposite is true: it is easier then using clutch. The only thing you need to do after years of wrong habits is to visualize and understand what you are doing and just practice and practice everytime you ride. In a week or two it will become your second nature, i promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janusz Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Oh yes, I forgot. You should not preload the shifter, contrary to popular opinion. It wears your shifting mechanism unnecesarily and destroys proper timing. I know, it feels like sneaking next gear easier but I strongly suggest not to do it. Unless you want your transmission jump out of gear in few years and enjoy false neutrals. Of course when I am riding a big cruiser or anything bigger then 350cc and older then say 30 years (and therefore possibly with a not constant mesh design gearbox) I DO use some clutch when shifting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenr Posted November 19, 2004 Author Share Posted November 19, 2004 OK - well I am definitely going to try this out when I get my bike back, even if it is fixed ! I just hope I dont mess it up and send it straight back to the repairers !! Doing 2 and 4 without 1 and 2 definitely sounds easier to get used to. Part of my problem with the gearchange was also when you change back down the gear lever would stick down and eventually ping back up - I would feel it on the botton of my boot, so I am pretty certain there was something wrong still. Thanks guys ! Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rktman1 Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 OK Janusz. I'll try it. Promise. Yes Kenr, it does sound like there is much more wrong with your bike than shifting technique. I've never experienced the shift lever stuck in the down position. This does not sound right at all. Good luck. Let us all know what the shop does and if it works. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenr Posted December 1, 2004 Author Share Posted December 1, 2004 I know a couple of you guys had similar problems with the gearchange so when I called up to find out what is happening with my bike today I made sure to find out what the part numbers are : ratchet arm - 01235130 spring - 04238300 Apparently Guzzi knew what the problem was from the frame number and sent a CD with the repair details, so it would appear this is definitely a known issue. Unfortunately the guy who booked my bike in wasn't quite up front and told me they had already ordered the parts which they hadn't, so I am still waiting for the bits to show up after 2 weeks so they can put it all back together ......... If I ever get my bike back I will let you know how it works out - in the meantime if you plan to get yours booked in I suggets you make sure they order the parts in first - the warhouse shows plenty in stock in Europe but no-one seems capable of sticking them in a jiffy back and posting them If it wasn't cold and wet here I might be very upset btw - if anyone can point me to a drawing with the part numbers I would be really interested to see what the offending bits look like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldini Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Kenr, Go back to post #29 on previous page - there's a drawing of parts belfastguzzi posted - he guessed this might be the problem. The ratchet arm & spring are top left. Spring part no is same but the ratchet arm no has changed. This is a common problem. There's loads of stuff if you search technical topics. One thread was called "spring is here" contains most of info. there's an FAQ on it too I think. Look for Pawl arm, broken spring, stuck in third gear etc etc... Hope it's sorted for you. KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenr Posted December 1, 2004 Author Share Posted December 1, 2004 Kenr, Go back to post #29 on previous page - there's a drawing of parts belfastguzzi posted - he guessed this might be the problem. The ratchet arm & spring are top left. Spring part no is same but the ratchet arm no has changed. This is a common problem. There's loads of stuff if you search technical topics. One thread was called "spring is here" contains most of info. there's an FAQ on it too I think. Look for Pawl arm, broken spring, stuck in third gear etc etc... Hope it's sorted for you. KB 38194[/snapback] Thanks Balldini - I thought that was the part but wasn't sure if it was the same part thats refered to in other threads on the issue - I guess it's reasuring if it is the same and not another potential problem ..... Looking ofrward to getting the bike back and will report more when I do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenr Posted December 10, 2004 Author Share Posted December 10, 2004 So the bike is back, finally !! And here is what I learnt from the experience - The local dealer was oblivious to cause of the problem even though it is widely known (they obviously don't visit the v11 forum !) - They initially tried to fob me off with excuses like 'the bike needs to be run in..' I wouldn't accept that because I knew from what I read here that there was really an issue, and even though I told them about it they didn't pay attention - When they finally learnt from Guzzi directly what the issue was (Guzzi could tell from the frame number) they told me they ordered the parts up before they took my bike away. In fact they didn't and so I had to wait three weeks while the parts showed up - which was kind of annoying because the problem wouldnt have stopped me using it in the meantime - It did pay to be persistent, but polite and in the end I think the dealer actually did a pretty good job. I was trying to consider it from their point of view and ended up feeling kind of sorry for them. I guess the villian is really Moto Guzzi - once someone has purchased the machine they get their money and the dealer gets left with all the niggley problems that need fixing - and I know they get paid but I bet it isn't business they really want to have, just the cost of supporting the Guzzi marque. And I guess if it was my business I might wonder if it is worth all the hassle at some point - and if the dealer gives up then my life as a Guzzi customer certainly doesn't get any easier. Anyway, its great to have the bike back working finally, and its not even raining here these days ..... Happy riding Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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