Guest ratchethack Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 Well, if you are getting grease on the rubber, you need to use a grease that is ok with natural rubber and that ain't common wheel bearing grease. 59961[/snapback] errrrr, Nog - do you think Guzzi would design a hub with an obvious intent to carry grease and then put natural rubber blocks in there that would disintegrate on contact with wheel bearing grease? Well OK, come to think of it, you're perfectly justified in being suspicious. Let's try another tack. They've been making these things the same way with the same rubber blocks in 'em for something like 20 years now. Though I've heard many recommendations by reputable Guzzi service providers to grease the cush drives with no mention whatsoever of grease compatible with natural rubber (including Teo Lamers and Dave Richardson at Moto International), I haven't heard of a single case of cush drive blocks disintegrating from grease... Could it be that they aren't made of natural rubber? Just asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nogbad Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 errrrr, Nog - do you think Guzzi would design a hub with an obvious intent to carry grease and then put natural rubber blocks in there that would disintegrate on contact with wheel bearing grease? Well OK, you're perfectly justified in being suspicious. Could it be that they aren't natural rubber? Just asking. 59969[/snapback] I assumed that they would be plain tyre rubber type stuff. Anyway, I thought you said Guzzi didn't put any grease in there. We have a different attitude to the cush drive methinks. I can't be bothered with it. If it goes bad, I'll fix it then. I certainly don't fancy struggling with the removal of the retaining screws on the off chance a bit of grease will prolong its life marginally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 I assumed that they would be plain tyre rubber type stuff. Anyway, I thought you said Guzzi didn't put any grease in there. That's exactly the point. Guzzi doesn't grease the hub splines, shaft splines, wheel spindles, shock eyes, or shift lever shaft either, per the dozens of posts on the topic. This has been a cause of (IMHO) reasonable concern for many. In fact, many (myself included) have followed the advice of a number of Guzzi Pro's who consider it wise to pre-emptively grease all the dry-from-the-factory bearing joints as soon as possible, and keep 'em greased. To me, this is just common sense. In my view, greasing the cush drive rubber wedges is pretty low-level on the importance scale. But I most certainly consider it unwise NOT to put the cush drive collar on the list with the rest. As long as you're in there, not greasing the wedges (as also recommended) just seems silly. As I've pointed out previously - the collar is steel on steel between collar and shaft, and machined with a helical groove obviously meant to carry grease. Without grease, rust accumulates and distributes itself liberally throughout the cush drive, acting as grinding compound. It grinds away, opening up the collar tolerance. I reckon anyone who's seen this understands instantly. I'd put it at about the same level of importance as the hub splines (and that's pretty far up there, IMHO) - but of course, that's just me, and as always, YMMV. Look, I generally choose to follow the advice of the reputable Guzzi Pro's who've been maintaining these things for many decades - at least as long as recommendations seem to fit the facts as I see 'em. I'm extremely glad I took their advice and caught mine when I did. Far be it from me to hold anyone's feet to the fire on greasing cush drives, or anything else, for that matter!! As far as I know, the UK's still a free country (ain't it? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nogbad Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 ...especially when it's so FUN and EASY to work on 'em! 59973[/snapback] I agree with you there. I had no trouble doing any of the work I needed to do yet, including the genny end seal, rear caliper etc. Anything likely to get worse, cost a lot or be a safety issue I shall fix post haste. The same goes for engine servicing etc. IF the little screws retaining the cush drive were an easy remove, fine, I would look in. But they ain't. The cush drive on my bike is not loose or rattly, I don't treat the bike harshly, wheelie it or anything. If I'm getting 8000 plus miles from sports touring rear rubber, the cush is probably not working hard anyway. So, my considered opinion is that this component is unlikely to need attention until the distant future, even if I don't grease it. Why risk stripped heads or broken bolts to access something that isn't faulty yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex-Corsa Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 Here's a proper grease Gun with an additional extra longer end-hose for flexible fit in all places for the Guzzi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest whidbeyrider Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Here is a useful web page resource on lubricants in general, and a good reason to use 60 percent moly grease on the splines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX REDNECK (R.I.P.) Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Though I've heard many recommendations by reputable Guzzi service providers to grease the cush drives with no mention whatsoever of grease compatible with natural rubber Look for a product called "SilGlide" its a silcone based grease that's safe for rubber. You can find it at NAPA stores. One tube will last you the rest of your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Look for a product called "SilGlide" its a silcone based grease that's safe for rubber. You can find it at NAPA stores. One tube will last you the rest of your life. 81627[/snapback] Wow, Tx. I can actually still recall this discussion from 6 months back. Thanks for the recommendation. I guess I coulda clarified my point a bit. I don't think the cush drives HAVE natural rubber in 'em. I reckon otherwise they'd have specified silicone-based grease. My cush drive blocks seem to be holding up quite well with boat trailer wheel bearing grease, which isn't anything too special, except for it's resistance to water intrusion. It's a Grade 2 aluminum complex -based grease that I found resists throw-off from the cush drive collar, rubber blocks, and hub splines - as long as I use it sparingly. Works great in many other spots too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX REDNECK (R.I.P.) Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 ^ Sorry, I' ve had Pablo & Pedro hammering & sawing around here for 2 weeks. Today they're working on the roof right over my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastguzzi Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Here is a useful web page resource on lubricants in general, and a good reason to use 60 percent moly grease on the splines. 81615[/snapback] A while ago I refilled the Land Rover swivel housings with the thick moly grease that's recommended as an option, instead of the normal oil, as a better job and to cut down on leaks from the swivel ball seal. I guess that this is the same sort of high moly content grease that's being talked about for the splines. Could be yet another Land Rover part to add to the Guzzi replacements list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Field Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 If you really want your cush drive to work well, ya gotta grease it and cut big holes in the rubber pie wedges, so they actually compress and do their job. To do so, take a section of the largest-diameter pipe that will chuck up in your drill press, turn on the motor, and use a file to sharpen the edge of the pipe. Then, use this "apple corer" to cut chunks of rubber out of each wedge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbikerrick Posted March 11, 2006 Author Share Posted March 11, 2006 That's exactly the point. Guzzi doesn't grease the hub splines, shaft splines, wheel spindles, shock eyes, or shift lever shaft either, per the dozens of posts on the topic. This has been a cause of (IMHO) reasonable concern for many. In fact, many (myself included) have followed the advice of a number of Guzzi Pro's who consider it wise to pre-emptively grease all the dry-from-the-factory bearing joints as soon as possible, and keep 'em greased. To me, this is just common sense. In my view, greasing the cush drive rubber wedges is pretty low-level on the importance scale. But I most certainly consider it unwise NOT to put the cush drive collar on the list with the rest. As long as you're in there, not greasing the wedges (as also recommended) just seems silly. As I've pointed out previously - the collar is steel on steel between collar and shaft, and machined with a helical groove obviously meant to carry grease. Without grease, rust accumulates and distributes itself liberally throughout the cush drive, acting as grinding powder. It grinds away, opening up the collar tolerance. I reckon anyone who's seen this understands instantly. I'd put it at about the same level of importance as the hub splines (and that's pretty far up there, IMHO) - but of course, that's just me, and as always, YMMV. Look, I generally choose to follow the advice of the reputable Guzzi Pro's who've been maintaining these things for many decades - at least as long as recommendations seem to fit the facts as I see 'em. I'm extremely glad I took their advice and caught mine when I did. Far be it from me to hold anyone's feet to the fire on greasing cush drives, or anything else, for that matter!! As far as I know, the UK's still a free country (ain't it? ) 59973[/snapback] You are SO right RH, I took my cush drive apart,and the sleeve with the groove in it, already had rust,and my bike only had 3500 miles on it ,and I live in the dry Arizona desert, and rarely wash it. I had to clean it up with fine sandpaper and apply grease, I also replaced the cheesy button head allen screws with some decent stainless screws, but did not grease the rubbers for fear the petroleum based grease would eat them up, now I think I need to get back in there and drill holes in them and lube them up as well. at lest the plate retaining bolts will be easy to remove. I would like to see some pictures of the proper way the cush rubber pie slices should look with holes drilled in them, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbikerrick Posted March 11, 2006 Author Share Posted March 11, 2006 I assumed that they would be plain tyre rubber type stuff. Anyway, I thought you said Guzzi didn't put any grease in there. We have a different attitude to the cush drive methinks. I can't be bothered with it. If it goes bad, I'll fix it then. I certainly don't fancy struggling with the removal of the retaining screws on the off chance a bit of grease will prolong its life marginally. 59970[/snapback] the screws are easy to remove, my friend. just use a hand impact driver with the proper sized hex socket, if one or 2 strip out, just cut a groove with a dremel and use the large flat blade screwdriver bit with the impact driver. It took me about 15 minutes to remove all mine and I only phucked up one screw. also theres a big fibre "washer" between the plate and the hub that should have a smear of grease on it also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slug Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 'They' say it's possible with a right angled fitting on the end of a grease gun, but I've never seen one of those, although I've been looking out for one for ages. There are lots of write-ups on it. The fitting often seems to need ground down to fit. 59699[/snapback] I just did this last weekend I am nearly 100% sure that a 90° fitting won't work (of course, I'll bet you five bucks I can quit gambling...) The 90° fitting would be too tall to get a good seal around the Zerk fitting (the origin of the name is from the Greek god Zerkonius, god of lubrication and scraped knuckles, Zerkonius was also known to get very angry with anyone who confused him with the Zirconius, the god of cheap engagement rings) I found a swivel-type fitting that conveniently stops at 45° (yes, they do exist, you just have to visit EVERY auto parts store within a 50 mile radius to find it.) I can also confirm that the swivel fitting does not need to be modified to work Also, I disconnected the shock from the swingarm to get that extra wiggle room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard100t Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 I just did this last weekend I am nearly 100% sure that a 90° fitting won't work (of course, I'll bet you five bucks I can quit gambling...) The 90° fitting would be too tall to get a good seal around the Zerk fitting (the origin of the name is from the Greek god Zerkonius, god of lubrication and scraped knuckles, Zerkonius was also known to get very angry with anyone who confused him with the Zirconius, the god of cheap engagement rings) I found a swivel-type fitting that conveniently stops at 45° (yes, they do exist, you just have to visit EVERY auto parts store within a 50 mile radius to find it.) I can also confirm that the swivel fitting does not need to be modified to work Also, I disconnected the shock from the swingarm to get that extra wiggle room. 81757[/snapback] I havent looked yet but maybe you can find these tools on Ebay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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