Guest vkerrigan Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Has anyone purchased the 03 header pipes for the LeMans with the added crossover? I'm getting ready to add a PC III and and have the bike dyno tuned. If they're available AND reasonable in price, it seems like it might be something worthwhile. I'm also running a stock airbox w K&N, Stucchi X-over & Mistral CF pipes. TIA..............vkerrigan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_roethlisberger Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 I was thinking about that the other day as well. I wonder what, if any, benefits retrofitting the '03 headers to a 2002 or earlier V11 Sport/LeMans would have?? Maybe none, maybe more low/mid-range? al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vkerrigan Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Al..........As you know, Guzzi brochures claim additional mid-range torque and thermal balancing (whatever that means). I know some Beemer oilheads have them, and I guess it makes sense that a small performance improvement could be realized with their use. On the upcoming Dyno run/fuel mapping, I want to have it tuned for linearity of torque throughout the RPM band rather than max HP. If available and affordable, these pipes may help in that department. Its been my experience that anything direct from MG is kinda pricey...........vk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_roethlisberger Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 True.... well, if anyone including yourself does end up with some empiracle evidence of performance gains(or not) by applying the '03 crossover-headers to an '02 or earlier bike, please let us know. I am sure more than a couple people are curious. It would be nice to settle that quandry eventually al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callison Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 I seem to recall that the header pipe diameter has changed again for 2003. Or I could be wrong. There is an after market crossover (Stein-Dinse?) but I would guess that it more than a few millimeters smaller in diameter than the current headers and the mismatch would not make it a worthwhile alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Stewart Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 I haven't seen any aftermarket front crossover pipes (just for the Jackels and California's). I have thought of making my own for my 00 V11Sport, but I will have to wait till it gets out of the shop. I think I will do a swap with the Rosso first, just to see how much difference there is if any by the seat of my pants dyno. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vkerrigan Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 I'll be interested to hear the results of your swap. Good Luck!........VK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callison Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 All exterior dimensions of the two valve engines are pretty much identical for the big blocks. If the California series after-market cross-over fits them, it will fit a V11 Sport - PROVIDING... the pipe diameters are compatible. Agostini has this after market item at http://www.agostiniduilio.com/acce_spec_gb.htm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vkerrigan Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Carl, If the diameters are the same, that could be a relatively painless way to do it. I'm going to be talking to the Fast by Feracci folks soon and I'll mention this to them and advise what they say. If do-able, I would like to baseline all intake and exhaust enhancements before dyno tuning the thing. Once completed, I'll be glad to post the map at the appropriate location here. Appreciate the help...........Happy Trails............VK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Stewart Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 The header pipe of the California has a smaller diameter than the V11Sport. I had thought of going that way when I first saw the picture also. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callison Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 There's nothing like a cheapo set of digital calipers... especially for noodle head mechanics like me. Okay, I ran out to the garage and measured the header pipes of my California and the V11 Sport. 42.5 and 45mm. A little math indicates that the cross sectional area of the California headers is 96% that of the V11 Sport. I'm not conversant in engine dynamics, but since the exhaust is not a steady state flow, the reduction in cross sectional area would probably not be real noticeable compared to the low and mid-range gain. You'd lose some bass in the pipes though, the resonant frequency would be higher. Hmm... I wonder if that would move the 2500 rpm burble or do away with it. Since I have a California that would benefit from the crossover and a Sport 1100i/V11 Sport I could order one and try it on both. Looks like I need some more overtime. Hey, wait a minute! When I bought the California, it had been a minor damage from being dropped at 25mph. The right header has a big ding in it. If I can convice my wife that the ding is impacting gas mileage and then convince her that the Agositini part is cheaper than the replacement MG header (almost a certainty) then maybe, just maybe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_roethlisberger Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 ...another thing to note it that, at least from the photo above, it appears that crossover tube on the aftermarket version is larger than the OEM. Although someone with a 2003 actually in their garage may want to double-check and confirm, I believe that the OEM x-over tube is a much small cross-section/diameter than the main header pipes. I'm not sure if this was intentional in regard to performance, clearances, or what. So if the Agostini x-over is a larger diameter, it may produce different results. A dyno is the only way to know I would suspect BTW, I'm very curious to see the FBF x-over when done, and a comparison between it and that Stucci on the same bike on a Dyno. Victor, do you have any idea when we might see some pics and that data? al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 Surely some could go down tot he local joes perfomance exhaust shop and get one bent up even if its only rought out of plain old steel. Hit it with a can of VHT paint and try it out it won't be pretty but would answer the question for a reasonable cost. Then you could go to someone who knowes what they are doing to get a stainless steel made up. Would help if the local proprieter of the exhaust shop is a bike nut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_roethlisberger Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 .....indeed, but I think I'll wait to see the results of other's retrofits to see if there is really any big gains to be made. I personally like the look sans x-over, so if it's negligible, or if it can be approximated with other mods. I'd stay with the '00-'02 headers. But I'm still very interested to see and hear other's results from the modification of putting the '03 front x-over on a 2002 or earlier bike, especially any pre and post dyno runs al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 There's nothing like a cheapo set of digital calipers... especially for noodle head mechanics like me. Okay, I ran out to the garage and measured the header pipes of my California and the V11 Sport. 42.5 and 45mm. A little math indicates that the cross sectional area of the California headers is 96% that of the V11 Sport. You have been working too hard you noodle head The cross section area is πr squared, so a little math indicates that the cross sectional area of the California headers is about 89% that of the V11 Sport. (42.5/2)*(42.5/2)*π _________________ = 89.xxxxxx (45/2)*(45/2)*π I think that's about right. Then again my last math test was a real bad flunk... How much more air can flow is another question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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