luhbo Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 @ Docc, did you notice that your side cover is broken? @ Czakky, did you check the mentioned ground cable as shown on Docc's photo? Was it disconnected or broken? Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Hubert, Moto Guzzi replaced both my side covers and starter cover under warranty, but my dealer made me promise not to put them on. So, I've fiber glassed the backs of all three of the body parts on the bike and still have the new pieces in the bags. The cracks are just there for looks. Otherwise, C-zak: 11.9 V is pretty much a dead battery. You could try charging it and seeing if this changes the run condition. That short had to be pretty hard on the battery. Maybe the regulator too. What does the black wire look like going into the right side top of the regulator? Most important is Hubert's question about the main ground cable. I can almost see it in your photo from when the airbox was off . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czakky Posted October 7, 2013 Author Share Posted October 7, 2013 @ Docc, did you notice that your side cover is broken? @ Czakky, did you check the mentioned ground cable as shown on Docc's photo? Was it disconnected or broken? Hubert yea cleaned up and is good to go was pretty corroded, seems to have had no affect on the way it runs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czakky Posted October 7, 2013 Author Share Posted October 7, 2013 Hubert, Moto Guzzi replaced both my side covers and starter cover under warranty, but my dealer made me promise not to put them on. So, I've fiber glassed the backs of all three of the body parts on the bike and still have the new pieces in the bags. The cracks are just there for looks. Otherwise, C-zak: 11.9 V is pretty much a dead battery. You could try charging it and seeing if this changes the run condition. That short had to be pretty hard on the battery. Maybe the regulator too. What does the black wire look like going into the right side top of the regulator? Most important is Hubert's question about the main ground cable. I can almost see it in your photo from when the airbox was off . . . recharged and still no effect... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 czakky and I are thinking it's time for a good battery test, maybe new battery. Then we'll test the regulator after it is grounded well back to the engine. A short like this can cause some havoc, but nothing craft beer cannot fix! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi_Roy Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Electrics seem fine now, but it's not running anymore, reset the TPS and it seems to be getting worse I did do most of Docc's tank off checklist while I had her apart. Do you think that my new o-ring on the timing sensor is messing me up? The gap between the sensor and the toothed wheel is quite critical, adding an additional gasket moves the sensor too far away. We just had a guy on the other forum who had added a gasket to fix the oil leak on a Quota and his bike was running like crap not very nice. Now that you mention it of course, the main ground is under the seat release, this is a silly place for it. The main battery ground should connect to an engine / gearbox bolt smeared with a little grease to prevent corrosion. The black wire going into the regulator is not a ground it's +12 Volts, the regulator ground is the little bitty wire under the mounting bolt, possibly the one that did all the damage. Remove the ground through the loom and ground the regulator to the engine In light of all that's happened no ground wire that's grounded to chassis at the other end should run back to the battery negative, it should connect to the engine or chassis Headlight, regulator idiot lights, gauges to name a few. There should only be one path, from negative to the chassis, through the main ground wire. Things like GPS, heated gear and other accessories are ok as they don't provide an alternate path for the starter current. Don't fix too many things at the same time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czakky Posted October 7, 2013 Author Share Posted October 7, 2013 Electrics seem fine now, but it's not running anymore, reset the TPS and it seems to be getting worse I did do most of Docc's tank off checklist while I had her apart. Do you think that my new o-ring on the timing sensor is messing me up? The gap between the sensor and the toothed wheel is quite critical, adding an additional gasket moves the sensor too far away. We just had a guy on the other forum who had added a gasket to fix the oil leak on a Quota and his bike was running like crap not very nice. Now that you mention it of course, the main ground is under the seat release, this is a silly place for it. The main battery ground should connect to an engine / gearbox bolt smeared with a little grease to prevent corrosion. The black wire going into the regulator is not a ground it's +12 Volts, the regulator ground is the little bitty wire under the mounting bolt, possibly the one that did all the damage. Remove the ground through the loom and ground the regulator to the engine In light of all that's happened no ground wire that's grounded to chassis at the other end should run back to the battery negative, it should connect to the engine or chassis Headlight, regulator idiot lights, gauges to name a few. There should only be one path, from negative to the chassis, through the main ground wire. Things like GPS, heated gear and other accessories are ok as they don't provide an alternate path for the starter current. Don't fix too many things at the same time ok so this black wire one time "mystery" wire should be run directly to the regulator? One thing at a time good advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi_Roy Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Not from the battery, from an engine bolt, timing cower screw is a handy spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czakky Posted October 8, 2013 Author Share Posted October 8, 2013 when you charge your battery sunday, try and start your bike tuesday and it doesn't have enough power... I'm seeing the signs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luhbo Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 The dangling mystery cable was the thick one, usually, and not at all silly, bolted to the gearbox or was it the small black one usually connected to the regulator housing? Besides that it is quite important to have numerous connections directly between battery minus and the attached electrical devices - for EMC reasons or as potential equalisations. Don't make changes to your harness unless you really know what you do. At least you should be able to read and interpret correctly the schematics provided in the manual. You better be carefull, set your harness on fire and you can opt for another bike. The internet won't help you then. Hubert BTW, do you have an Ohlins V11? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czakky Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 The dangling mystery cable was the thick one, usually, and not at all silly, bolted to the gearbox or was it the small black one usually connected to the regulator housing? Besides that it is quite important to have numerous connections directly between battery minus and the attached electrical devices - for EMC reasons or as potential equalisations. Don't make changes to your harness unless you really know what you do. At least you should be able to read and interpret correctly the schematics provided in the manual. You better be carefull, set your harness on fire and you can opt for another bike. The internet won't help you then. Hubert BTW, do you have an Ohlins V11? No it was much skinnier than the main ground like 14 gauge or so. it was closer to the regulator housing. Good advice, I guess I am having some trouble reading the schematics. I feel lucky that I didn't set the harness on fire already..... No, plain old Lemans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Certainly, it's time to set the voltages straight which is looking like a battery to begin with. Yet, alot was apart and back together and it was "running great" before . . . Today my son and I worked on his vintage bike getting ready to ride to Barber's Vintage Festival. Simple stuff: check to be sure the petcock had good fuel flow both "on" and "reserve" (it did), and replace the spark plug caps with known good ones. Bike would not start. Not start. NOT START. A couple hours going over everything, taking things apart, leaving for lunch and coffee. Once back and checking for (no) voltage at the points: there it was up under the tank - the points connector had come undone while fiddling with the petcock. There it is again: "Don't fix too many things at once!" But also, czakky, once your voltages are good, you may need to go back over the harness under the tank and under the airbox simply looking for something not plugged in. Very carefully inspect all the wires that got hot in the meltdown to be sure they are not shorted to ground or broken/ burnt open. Don't give up! I've got too much beer riding on this (even if I do have to split with K_R and gs. And Hubert, of course . . . ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi_Roy Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 A loose main ground was the cause of all the smoke, relocate the connection point from behind the seat release key to somewhere like the gearbox. I would not replace the black wire that burnt up, just run a short ground from the regulator to an engine bolt. A new main loom would be the best but in lieu of that remove all the covering and carefully check all the wires from under the seat as far as the front of tank taping up any points where the insulation is melted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luhbo Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 A loose main ground was the cause of all the smoke, relocate the connection point from behind the seat release key to somewhere like the gearbox. .... I think that's some misunderstanding. The main ground never was loose nor is it attached to somewhere else but the gearbox. Did I miss something? Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi_Roy Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Hubert, a few posts back to your question czakki responded "yea cleaned up and is good to go was pretty corroded, seems to have had no affect on the way it runs" He also in the opening post complained about weak starting with a freshly recharged battery. Much further along I concluded that the main ground was disconnected and the starter current was diverted back through the smaller ground causing it to fry. The Voltage drop would also explain weak starting. http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/uploads/post-9232-0-94435600-1380931018.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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