Skeeve
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Posts posted by Skeeve
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I think it would be both excellent and forward thinking to give us a rugged all-road machine based on Ing. Carcano's suggestion for a three cylinder diesel.
Thanks for linking to that interview: that was a fabulous read! The translation to English was a little fractured at times: it took me awhile to figure out that when they referred to "carters" they meant the engine cases, but all part of the fun, truly! What a wonderful gift for the author, to have been given the opportunity to interview such a vital and delightful historical personage. Color me jealous!
As for what I'd like to see, I'm w/ Ing. Carcano: Guzzi desperately needs to do something new! If Piaggio wants to keep Guzzi as their "touring" line, then a compact diesel makes excellent sense. Regadless of whether diesel or petrol powered, it needs to be blown: Guzzi is no longer going to be getting involved in racing, so the post '39 ban on supercharging has no bearing on them anyway: motorcycles need to be fuel-efficient if nothing else or hybrid electric cars will eventually overwhelm them, so the route forward requires forced induction as a means of balancing power with fuel efficiency.
In the mean time, I'll just have to content myself w/ tooling along on Ing. Carcano's brainchild...
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I am helping a mate who owns a Scura with a slipping clutch and am being told by parts suppliers that the single plate parts are no longer available so he has bought a complete used twin plater with flywheel, before I start do I need anything else to do the conversion?
Send it out for lightening? I forget if it is Todd Eagen or his former partner Ed Milich who still does this work, but one or the other has a fairly comprehensive lightening program for the 2winpl8 that gets it down close to the mass of the single plater w/o turning it into a ticking time bomb like the single platers seem to be.
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Lots of great music on this thread, seems like 90% of it would get an [AOL]Me too![/AOL] out of me. In a perfect world I'd still look like I did 20 years ago and Melody Gardot would be riding pillion with me.
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Last summer, I talked to someone that had Mike Rich pistons in his V11 Sport, and he said the compression was a bit higher, AND his pre-ignition or pinging went away as well. I'm not sure if those pistons are domed differently or more efficiently , or what exactly caused the pinging to stop.
For some reason, I thought one of the V11 variants had dual pugged heads. If they do, you could probably utilize that ignition map to some extent.
Ken
WRT the MR pistons: yes. There's a long thread about it from back around 2004? or 2005? maybe: the basics of it are this: Guzzi/Aprillia redesigned the combustion chamber on the V11 heads vs. the shape used in the 1064 motor used in the Spot/Sporti v11s, but apparently funds ran out or someone forgot to update the piston to match, & they kept on w/ the same pistons as before, so there was a mis-match in the squish zone, leading to all sorts of poor combustion issues, along with lower compression than was actually claimed by the factory. Mike Rish noticed this disparity, and came up with a set of pistons to better match the V11 combustion chamber [basically, finished the job the factory left undone.] So they actually produce the 10.5:1 CR the factory claims for the V11 motors, and do so by eliminating the "dead zones" of trapped, unburnt gases out at the perimeter of the squish zone which leads to lower emissions, better fuel economy & reduced pinging from a more turbulent combustion chamber at peak compression.
No V11 motor came w/ dual plugs. Dual plugging of V11 motors is more complicated than the dual-plugging of the old round-head twins because of a rerouting of oil passages with the square-head redesign. It can be done, but hardly anyone has bothered due to the added expense and difficulty of reprogramming the electronic ignition [until recently] vs. the comparative ease of changing advance in a distributor.
The original Brevona [1100 Breva w/ 2v heads] had dual plugs, & up to a certain engine s/n [iirc, the changeover was made below the 25000 production number?] had the same oil return locations as the V11 cases. The oil returns were changed on the later cases in preparation for the jump to the 1200 2v motor. This was per the Guzzi bible [which oddly enough, is not affiliated in any way w/ Piaggio or Guzzi, but compiled by our fine friends @ Moto Int'l. in Seattle...] So conceivably, the dual-plug heads off a sufficiently low s/n Brevona should drop right onto the V11 cylinders. Don't forget to get the twin-output coils to replace the single coils on your V11 while you're at it...
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While I don't have any advice how much and in which areas (rpm/TPS) the ignition should be changed, it definitely should be retarded.
Looked into this question some years ago. The "8deg" # that has been bounced around in this thread comes from the difference btw the 37deg max advance on a stock V11 and the 29deg quoted by someone who had dual-plugged a v11 Sporti, iirc [Carl Allison mebbe?] Again, this is all "iirc," & you know how that goes, I've got an advanced case of CRS...
Anyway, the reduction at max advance wouldn't apply down around idle, so you can't reduce the map everywhere by that same amount. For the built in advance, it would probably be worthwhile to base it upon the same amount of starting advance from say, a small displacement 4-valve engine w/ centrally located spark, & see how it idles [smoothly or not?] Take a temp reading of the exhaust headers before the changes for a baseline comparison after: the readings should remain the same. If the exhaust is cooler, the timing is too advanced & too much heat is being retained in the head; if the pipes are hotter, the timing is too retarded & too much heat is being generated by the gases after they exit the cylinder.
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Back in the day
someone suggested the latch spring and the spring on the fast idle cable got mixed up and both work better reversed . . .Yeah, that was me. If your seat latch is real bugger to turn w/ the key and your fast idle lever keeps backing off while the bike is idling on the sidestand, they got the springs switched at the factory. That's my theory and I'm sticking with it, esp. since once I swapped them the seat is fairly easy to pop on & off and the fast idle stays set...
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What is it with all the dead photo links here? Dead before a month is out. Where's a free host that keeps photos up these days?
Photobucket? I haven't logged in recently, I suppose I should go check my account to make certain things are still there...
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Can I enlist any help here? This sounds like it should be solvable, right?
IIRC, Clevite makes the plain bearing shells for just about every ICE that people want to go fast & last. Guzzi probably buys their bearing shells from them in the 1st place, or if not, from some supplier who advertises their product as "just as good as Clevite's." Why not go to the source & find out if they make a bearing shell that's going to fit your reground crank?
Best o' luck, & hoping it's going to be a happy 2015 for you!
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Greg Field,Gary Cheek,Carl Allison,Dlaing,Belfastguzzi,Ratchethack( I miss his wit and knowledge,and yes it's not necessary to note you don't,we've heard it many times),Dan,Docc,Ryland,Jaap,Pete Roper,Mike Wilson and many others ,all were here when I showed up in 2006 and been very supportive and helpful.
To the next generation,...
I'm still here, just not very active these days.
Nice to know you're still lurking, Carl! Thanks again for all the work on the wiring diagrams!
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Finally I spoke with a well know technician who told me to find a correct TPS (the actual comes from a Harley Davidson the PO said that is the same part number of Guzzi's) because he will not perform any test or job without it, the problem is I only find one in Harpes and it is over $300 so I am looking for options before buy at the new one.
The utterly ridiculous price on the official Guzzi part is why the Harley-Davidson tps is used as a substitute: a few years ago they were ~ $60 for the part, vs. Guzzi's part at 3x as much or more. The only difference is a slightly faster "ramp" on the H-D part [which didn't seem to cause any problems in reports from those using them.] These are electro-mechanical parts, so they do eventually wear out.
WRT the pod filters: tests by serious go-fast people have conclusively determined that the stock airbox with the top converted into a sort of "retaining ring" for the filter element performs better than pod filters at all throttle regimes, & makes more power at WFO. Pod filters are strictly a "looks good" feature for that classic "motorcycle you can see thru" appearance, as opposed to modern, densely-packaged "opaque" motorcycles.
I understand that the situation in Venezuela may alter things, but the official word on the stock Sachs shock is that it is non-rebuildable [or at least, not worth doing so] and moreover, some iterations are prone to failure at the "eye" [which would allow the rear end to collapse & the shock to possibly jam against the rear wheel if it happened at speed.] The best advice it to replace it with one of the several aftermarket options [Penske, Hagon, Ohlins if you're wealthy] once the stocker is kaput [as yours is.] Alternatively, someone else who's already upgraded may have a stocker that's still usable and would be willing to give it to you for the cost of shipping? Wish I knew of some other bike that used a similar size, but like other esoteric vehicles, I think our Guzzis are a bit off the beaten track of "most bikes" equipment. ;-)
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The details of what (specs) and how much ($$$) will be worked on and discussed in due course.
Basically for right now I need a head count of who is serious and willing to commit to buy a custom built Ohlins rear shock.
The latter # will of course depend upon the former. Kind of hard to commit until we know if the price is competitive: there's several suspension options out there these days; Ohlins no longer has a near monopoly on performance suspension supply like they did 15 years ago.
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You can console yourself that chin spoilers are generally cosmetic and usually INCREASE drag, making the bike slower. Better off without!
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I've read a few past posts on the valve knock issue , but haven't seen any that address why this is a problem with a relatively low compression ratio engine. For example, my 749 has a compression ratio of 11.7:1 and my old 2003 R6 had a compression ratio of 12.4:1, yet neither of those had any valve knock with 93 octane gas. I thought octane rating needed to be higher for higher compression engines to avoid knocking. Obviously there must be additional factors.
Well, do you want the short version or the long?
Short version: those other bikes you mention are 4v/cyl engines with the sparkplug in the center; Guzzis are 2v/cyl w/ the plug off to the side. They're also much newer designs: our beloved V11s are essentially a couple of cylinders whacked off a WW2-era aircraft radial, without all the redundant/safety systems.
Long version: go check out Harry Ricardo's _The High Speed Internal Combustion Engine_: it's only 90 years old at this point, & clearly explains the answers to all your questions.
My recent addition of a K&N filter and Mistral exhaust seems to have made the knocking worse with straight 93 octane (not to mention some new flat spots under acceleration- no surprise), so per suggestions of some posts, ive ordered a PC III and will use the map for Mistral slip-ons to richen the fuelmixture. I've had good success with this on other bikes. 'wondering if this will help the valve knock situation as well?
Not so much. It may add enough fuel to reduce the tendency to knock, but then your mileage will go to
. As already pointed out above, the best way to cure knocking is to adjust timing advance [failing of course, proper combustion chamber design in the 1st place, as per Ricardo! ]-
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The left rubber intake hose fell off the air box recently...
I've looked at various posts on the forum and can't find opinions as to what they do to benefit induction.
That's because they don't do anything to benefit induction: they're there exclusively to minimize intake noise.
For example, without them, is there a ram air effect? Is this a good thing?
There is no ram air f/x from these things. The only Guzzis w/ ram air intakes were the Daytonas & Spot/Sporti. The ram air was tested at one point & found to only increase output by something like 1/2 horsepower [i forget the exact conditions; it's in Greg Field's [u]Guzzi Big Twins[/u] book, as I recall.]
The cross sectional area of the aperture seems smaller than the bit they go onto: good or bad?Do they cause poor running in traffic as I suspect?
They must have been put on for a reason - to stop crap (insects, discarded cigarette butts, small birds etc.) flying into the air box, perhaps?
Bad. Not really, altho' they certainly don't help. The were put on to keep induction noise trapped inside the airbox so the bike could pass arbitrary governmental noise standards be legally imported & sold here.
So, do I lose the other one or replace the lost one?Votes please.
Lose it & then look up "airbox mods" here in V11LM to see what you need to do next to unleash the mighty V11 that is currently half-strangled...
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I've wondered what the purpose for that balance pipe is. My 2002 LeMans does not have one and I see that is actually a GOOD thing from your "symbolic goodbye" shown above.
It has two purposes:
1st: it helps reduce the "hole" in the powerband @ ~3500 rpm. [Note I wrote "reduce" not "eliminate."] The reality is that it can't do much here anyway, & a lot of the Guzzi experts [Greg Field, et al] who'd been around before it was introduced hold unequivocally that it does so little in this regard that it isn't worth the headaches involved.
2nd [& I think more important wrt its original adoption by the factory]: it replicates the look of the [welded in] x-over in the exhaust of the original LeMans.
The front x-over seems to be a source of on-going problems, and the addition of an aftermarket rear x-over and remapping seems to eliminate any need for it.
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I joined V11 forum almost 3 years ago when I bought my LeMans but this site was pretty dead with almost no activity back then, maybe got to do with economy but its much better now the past year or so.
Not so much the economy as the loss of several voluble members. I was busy w/ some family problems; Ratchethack got kicked off the forum; Pete Roper got fed up with nitwits over on WG forums, started posting here more often & ran into some similar moronic BS here & swore off posting online altogether for awhile (he's back on WG forum again under a pseudonym to throw off the trolls, but unfortunately no longer checks in here much at all.
); DLaing (who used to excel at yanking RH's chain) pretty much left after RH got the boot.So yeah, it was dullsville around here for a time. Glad you stuck it out!
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Bear with me here... By no means is this my first bike, but I just inherited it and the two identical keys that actually fit the ignition won't actually turn. My dad had it hooked up to a battery tender so I'm not sure if something needs to be reconnected below the seat or if there's some secret moto guzzi handshake I need to do with the thing to get the key to turn so I can fire it up. My dad just passed and I have no clue why the guzzi key won't turn but I need to circulate gas in this plus a few others until I wade through probate and all the other bs I couldn't care less about but I know he'll haunt me if I don't maintain his bikes so any/all help would be greatly appreciated.
You need to push in slightly & turn, iirc. Just inserting the key & twisting doesn't do the trick.
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Thanks for that, I was out on it yesterday and thought I heard a bit of a chuffing every now and then from the exhaust so this evening when I came home from work I checked the nuts on the header clamps and sure enough they were loose. When I get a chance I'll squirt some carb cleaner around the intake rubbers while it's running to see if they're drawing any air in. Hopefully it's something as simple as that.
Put some hi-temp anti-seize on the threads for the header clamps: it will help getting the correct torque reading & helps to prevent loosening from the 'ratcheting' of dry threads during heat cycling.
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Hi everyone. I've just joined this forum after buying a 1998 Sport inj. I've had various round-fin Guzzis over the years but this is my first foray into owning a bike with fuel injection. The bike I've bought only has about 20,000 miles on it so it's in pretty good condition, it does however show the slightly rough running symptoms that I was expecting and in fact was told about by the previous owner. Sometimes takes a couple on prods on the starter button to fire up, it dies at lights on the odd occasion before it gets warm and is a bit rough around the 3,000 revs mark. It also gets about 40mpg (imp). It has the standard airbox and silencers but it does have an aftermarket cross-over.
Anyway, I was just looking at the bike and familiarising myself with it's various bits and pieces, I took the seat off and noticed that the tape had been peeled off the rubber bung on the ECU box so I took the bung off and saw that the chip had a green plastic Dymo label with WPC 12 on it. So, is this likely to be a Will Creedon chip? After all the good things I've read about Wills chips I'd like to try and iron out the little niggles and get the bike running a little bit better.
Now, I'm reasonably competent with the spanners and reasonably confident using software so can anyone suggest what would be the best course of action to take to improve the way the bike runs.
Thanks.
Doug
It would in fact appear that you've got a Will Creedon chip in there. Either that or someone w/ a Dymo labeler & an intent to convince folks that the bike is something other than what it really is...
Try doing a tuneup & properly setting the injector bodies, and see how things go from there. Check for air leaks around the [old] intake rubber & loose exhaust connections: those can affect the fuel mix too.
Best o' luck!
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Are you trying to work out when the 03 spec started, or when they got back from xmas celebrations, recovered from the hangover, finished off most of the last years bikes +/- ran out of frames from the previous year? ( they most likely started building with 03 bikes when they were still assembling on 02 frames, and chances are there were 02 framed bikes that rolled out of the factory after your 03 framed bike ....ths is italy we're talking about...)
For what it's worth, my bike is a 2M but has all the 2013 changes , was sold + registered as a 2014 ( april) ....
Well that sure puts a spin on things! a 2M bike, but with all the next generation modifications? Well sh^$*%t! I guess my bike isn't the true first '03+ featured bike! Do you mind posting some photos?
Yea, I guess I am trying to pin down both things...I assumed the '03 spec started with my frame, that would be February of 2003. I also would like to know if there is a fixed time period for the MY switch over, regardless of
feature set. This is getting more complicated the further I get down the Italian rabbit hole!
Given that most of southern Europe seems to take the month of August off, I'm going to suggest that is the MY cutoff. Since the factory [at that time, at least] built bikes in batches, they probably built the 2003 V11s late [after switching over from Calis or what not] and the 2004 V11s early, directly after the hiatus, to save themselves from having to switch the production line again.
It's a working theory, at least.
That does make a lot of sense, and does jive with the production of the 4M111155 bike I mentioned above (September '03 build month). But I don't know if I can continue down this path, knowing that serial production at Mandello Lario isn't true serial production! Italians are so passionate about things, why not solid record keeping!!!! I am sure the Aprilia (then Piaggio) ownership changes around this time didn't help the matter....
Aprillia assumed ownership ~ '99; Piaggio ~ '05. The only thing going on at that time was Aprillia thrashing around trying to stave off bankruptcy after having spent too much $$ in MotoGP trying to compete with much larger companies like Honda, et al while their main income stream of scooter sales was being systematically taken over by China.
As for why Italians can't be passionate about bookkeeping, as I can say is that accounting isn't about artistic creation [when done correctly. "Creative accounting" has a long & storied history of getting its practitioners arrested and/or dead...
]As for continuing down this path, I agree that it is a topic best left undisturbed!
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In talking with the seller of the very nice 2004 sport naked on eBay that is the twin brother to my bike, I have arrived at a very simple question, which may be common knowledge...
My bike was the first V11 built in the model year 2003. Serial number 3M111111. Manufacture date is February 2003.
The eBay bike is the 55th bike built for model year 2004. Serial number 4M111155. Manufacture date is September 2003.
Does anyone know what month Moto Guzzi considers the first month of the new model year? Does this month change from year to year?
We can't really determine anything from my bike's production date, since they could start building the new bikes at any date. However, knowing that both of these bikes were built in 2003, but cover two official model years as described by the VIN numbers, we now know that the model year transition is sometime between February and September! LOL! Unfortunately, because the V11 is such a low volume product, and the M.G. VIN number serialization is haphazard at best, it is very difficult to say that this 55th bike of M.Y. 2004 is near the beginning date of the production run or not. Some companies probably build 55+ bikes in a single day! But in Moto Guzzi-land, I am sure 55 V11 bikes could represent a month or more of production time.
Any insight or conjecture is welcomed!
Given that most of southern Europe seems to take the month of August off, I'm going to suggest that is the MY cutoff. Since the factory [at that time, at least] built bikes in batches, they probably built the 2003 V11s late [after switching over from Calis or what not] and the 2004 V11s early, directly after the hiatus, to save themselves from having to switch the production line again.
It's a working theory, at least.
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Hi all,
I've been looking for a set of high compression pistons here in the EU for some time and emailed Agostini , Omega and Pistal Racing .
Here is what Pistal answered yesterday .
Hi Angelo,
I will make some investigation from a friend dealing with Moto Guzzi since years, I did some racing piston for him few years ago, is the Moto Guzzi dealer in Parma, if I will make some pistons for your engine you will be the first to know.
Kind regards
Giorgio Casolari
Technical and Sales Manager
PISTAL RACING Srl
Da: Angelo Machairas
Inviato: giovedì 3 aprile 2014 18:04
A: Giorgio Casolari
Oggetto: Σχετ: R: Moto Guzzi V11 pistons ?
Dear Giorgio,
Thank you for your swift reply.
V11 was produced between 1998 and 2006 .
It is a two valve per cylinder engine of 92mm piston diameter ..
Although much loved by it's owners , some of them suffer from pre-ignition (knock,pinging) due to the mismatch of the stock piston top to the combustion chamber , leading to slow flame speed .
Even with high octane fuel , mine pinged near 4500-5000 rpm .
Adding more fuel or retarding the spark timing is not a desirable way to cure this phenomenon .
I believe that , if you would make a better shaped piston top , with a mild increase of compression ratio from the stock 9.3 : 1 , you would have a winner .
If you are interested , when I open the motor , I will try to send you a piston , a rubber mold of the combustion chamber and whatever measurements of interest I can take from it.
I will contact you first .
Best regards
Angelo
My take on the matter is , we can have a hand at determining the specs for the end product .
I , for one , would like long (as the OEM) skirts and as much as possible extended squish band .
Others , more knowledgeable than me , might suggest some other desirable characteristics .
Cheers
You might want to see if Mike Rich is going to do another run of his pistons, since he already went to the work of designing them to correctly match up w/ the V11 combustion chamber to eliminate pinging...
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Sold the Guzzi carcass today. It's a sad day.
Shucks! Just read your thread. Only thing I can think of off the top of my head that would destroy your cam & tappets like that is the V11 being a flat-tappet engine that requires a decent amount of ZDDP in the oil. If someone ever changed the oil using some of the "friction modified" low wt. automotive oils suited only to post-'95 automobiles, well, might that have done it in over time? Edit: just saw your post wrt the early life of the motor when you were in SFO & realized that w/o a Roper plate, normal acceleration from a stop up some of those steep grades would have been enough to create occasional, temporary oil starvation from an uncovered pickup.
Bummed that you deep-sixed the bike so fast: I understand that you might have just wanted to put yourself out of misery from staring at it, but suspect you could have made a better deal if you hadn't rushed... Hope I'm wrong, for your sake!
So, is your next bike going to be a shiny new Stelvio w/ the tasty QV engine?
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At $750-1000 US for a pair of canisters, he asked me why exhaust is so expensive. I had a couple ideas, but really, why is exhaust so expensive?
Cost of the raw materials [stainless steel $, titanium $$] are expen$ive, and in a non-production format [Guzzi's "boutique" volumes of production being about the bare minimum for realizing reasonable costs] highly labor-intensive. Man hours cost money, outside of places like India or China [which is why so much production has shifted overseas.]
As a for instance, over on the Pacific Coast Yahoo group, somebody in an FSU country [ukraine maybe?] made a nifty rear rack [Hondaline made a vestigial passenger backrest for the PC800 once, loooong out of production, but never a luggage rack.] Cost was unbelievably reasonable, since his asking price + shipping from overseas would still have put it about 1/2 the cost of what you would expect to pay for a similar item of U.S. manufacture. So, short of rolling your own [& essentially, not charging for your own time], anything like exhausts or racks that's essentially ALL man-hours (plus a certain baseline of materials costs) is going to cost some ducats...
Corbin/Sargent seat.
in 24/7 V11
Posted
You get a Sargent seat for an '02 V11 Sport by taking your seat off, sending it to Sargent, and they send it back to you as a Sargent seat. Fairly simple, really.
Corbin has lost their rep [rested on their laurels for decades] as a good seat supplier unless you take your bike to their factory and have them build the seat for you right there so you can test it out & get immediate fixes to it until it meets w/ your satisfaction. Apparently, they will do good work when under scrutiny that way. [No dog in this fight, just relaying the info I've seen online from multiple sources.]
Bill Mayer saddles will supposedly make you the best seat you will ever want to sit on, but they're built for sitting on, not looking at: I've seen a couple & they're a bit of an eyeful. Kind of like marrying a fatty 'cause she's such a good cook, I guess?
Worse ways to go.
And then of course, there's our long-time standby for Guzzi saddles, Rich Maund. [if he's still doing them? Haven't heard much from him in a few years...]