Lex

I've stated several times I don't know if the engine in this bike is the one that set the records. The engine isn't SOHC or DOHC and I know he took the engine back and forth so I'm not surprised the WFI (engine) is in NZ. It sounds like the "real" bike is split between the one here and the one in NZ. I'll stand by my opinion that the chassis and body work make this the World's Fastest Indian but I also understand if anyone has another opinion. I have to say what is much more important than which bike is real is that Burt Munro is (finally) getting the respect and fame he deserves. Whatever bike you think is "The One", they were both built by Mr. Munro with not much more than an in incredibly creative mind and a lot of determination. My hat is off to him. Lex

It sure looks like the same bike. I'm pretty sure it has been "gilded" a bit from when Munro raced it but it is just amazing to think that thing was originally an Indian with a top speed of something like 50 MPH. I've put the word out locally for the ride. I can try to encourage Marty but in case I have (inadvertently) mislead anybody: Marty isn't a friend, we've been riding together a few times, had a few meals together and have mutual friends but I couldn't say I know him well. I'll add he is also a bit of an inspiration, besides the Bonneville records and all that I sure hope I am still riding (better yet, riding as well as he does) when I am his age. Lex

Orson, Cool, thanks. My wife and I are hoping to make it over to Spain this summer/ fall to catch a MotoGP. I already found some rides I'll try to include. Lex

Mark, Great idea! I'll be there and put the word out locally. Hopefully the rain will stop by then. For those who don't ride at warp speed the scenery should be very beautiful, lots of green and flowers. I'll put the word out here in SLO county. Lex

Interesting, this movie is still being discussed. I've been tied up elsewhere for a while so I'm quite late in responding to the questions above. Dangerous: The first, and most important, thing you need to do is stop thinking the movie is a documentary. It is a fictionalized version of real life. The movie covers thing that happened on all nine trips. The scene where he set the record of 183.586 MPH was in 1967, the incident with the trailer wheel being replaced by a chunk of wood happen on his drive back to LA on his third trip, the incident with the cop on the highway never happened. Condensing a life as rich and exciting as Bert Munro's into 90 minutes requires a LOT of creativity and a willingness to sacrifice truth for beauty. The bike in the pictures I posted is the bike (chassis and body work) that set that record. In my mind that makes it the world's fastest Indian. Your opinion may well be different. The engine is another story, it may be the engine in the bike in NZ is the one that set the records, I don't know. I know he took the engine back and forth, the bike stayed in the US. The bodywork on the bike in your picture was replaced (if I understand Marty correctly, the next time I see him I'll ask to be sure) on the first trip. The "triple tail" caused the bike to wobble uncontrollably at the speeds that Bonneville allowed Munro to reach. Marty said Munro just cut off back of the bike and replaced it with part of an aircraft (external) fuel tank. Typical of his direct solutions to problems. Anyway, the triple tail bodywork shows the bike (or at least the body work) in NZ never went fast at Bonneville, it was not possible to ride it at speed. Lex

DD, According to the people I have spoken with this is the bike that set the records. Marty said Burt got smart after his first couple of trips and just took the engine home to Invercargill*. An interesting point, the bike in these pictures doesn't have the SOHC or the later DOHC conversion he built. This bike is supposed to have the original cases, but I doubt a speed freak like Munroe cared much about things like authenticity, he just wanted to go very, very fast. I'm nearly sure this is the fastest chassis and bodywork but the fastest motor my well be the one in the bike in NZ. The people who made the two Ducati powered replicas used in the film came here to measure and photograph the bike in these pictures after the owner refused to let them take it home to NZ to use as a model. The bike in your picture clearly has his first body work, Marty said Burt first cured the high speed instability by cutting off the "triple tail" and grafting on part of an aircraft (external) fuel tank Burt (of course) managed to scrounge in Salt Lake City, the nearest large town to the salt flats. None of the high speeds or records set at Bonneville were set with the triple tail, it was just too unstable at speed. I would guess they decided to use the original body work in the movie because A, it was in New Zealand and B, it looks cooler. I would be very surprised if he didn't have a chassis at home for road testing, I would guess that is what is still in New Zealand. As you can see from the bodywork he got some sponsorship after he started setting big speed numbers, that probably allowed him to buy/ build a few things like a back-up chassis instead of being on the incredibly small budget (pretty much nothing) he started with. What I'm most surprised about is that nobody has drawn the link from Burt Munroe to John Britton, another south island Kiwi who didn't let little things like impossibility stop him from reaching his goals. Lex * About the only large city in NZ I haven't visited, after we went to Dunedin in "summer" we lost our desire to go any further south . ;-)

Here is the bike with half the body on.This is the final version of the bike, note the scoops in front of the rider have been replaced by an opening at the front and the "triple tail" (the real cause of the high speed instability) is gone.

My goodness, I get busy and don't stop by for a few days (OK, weeks) and you guys get off on a long discussion about what has become a favorite movie of mine. If you don't like this movie I can only conclude you were expecting a hardcore motorcycle move, it is not that. It is a movie about an exceptional human and his accomplishments. I am very lucky to live on the central California coast for several reasons, one of them is the local motorcycle community. This is just another example. If you've seen the movie think about the two characters who show up after Burt gets to Bonneville, Rollie and Marty. Most of you have seen Rollie Free before, he is the guy in the famous picture of the Vincent Black Lightening running at Bonneville with the rider totally horizontal and wearing nothing but a bathing suit, helmet and tennis shoes. Marty is Marty Dickerson, also a Vincent rider and (to this day) Bonneville record holder. Marty just turned 80 and shows up pretty regularly on local rides. He is still fast, on our last ride I finally got past him but my 100 HP Ducati Vs. the 30-35 HP single he was riding gave me a slight edge. Yes, I passed him on a straight. Marty, Rollie and Burt were pretty good fiends. Anyway, we took over the local art house movie theater here in San Luis Obispo (the Palm) last Saturday and watched the movie with Marty as the guest of honor. After the film Marty give us a slide show from the old days at Bonneville and a bunch of background about Burt and the adventures they all had. He also explained something that help the movie make a lot more sense, the writers really condensed all of the trips Munroe made (nine, I think) into a single trip so the movie wouldn't be 6 hours long. Yup, the ever creative Kiwi actually found a piece of wood on the side of the road and used it to hold up one side of the bike trailer to get to a place were he could fix the trailer. I'm very sorry to say the scene were the cop stops Burt on a public road is BS, Burt did his testing on an unused part of the salt flats. He was creative, not stupid. My favorite part was when Marty talked about Burt and the ladies, the movie kind of hints at this but it was very toned down. One slide showed Marty, Rollie, Burt and a fourth guy in booth at a restaurant. Burt was positioned away from the isle, Marty explained that if they let Burt sit on the outside he would grab the waitress! Another slide showed the real version of the scene where the Bonneville folks chipped in to give Burt some money. In the movie he gave the girl a nice, little kiss. In the slide the kiss looked more like a couple of teenagers watching the submarine races. Finally, the group went off to a very nice local riders house have lunch and see the bike. Yes, the bike. Somehow the World's Fasted Indian wound up in the small town were I live. The owner was kind enough to bring it to the party in SLO town. I'm pretty sure the bike has been cleaned up a bit, lots of things were polished and I get the impression Burt Munroe was much more concerned with performance then style. Here is a picture: Great flick, bring the wife/ girlfriend and the kids, just don't expect the downunder version of On Any Sunday, Lex

Just is case anybody was wondering... In the US the races will be in the NASCAR, oops, Speed channel at 09:00 and 10:00 on the left coast. For you Easterners, the races will be on late enough to allow enjoyment of a beer or two. Coffee at my house. Lex

Bob, It is a stupid publicity stunt by an American car company. The engine is a V-10, in the 6 or 7 liter area for displacement from a US car. IIRC, even Scotty Parker (many time US flat track champ) couldn't ride the POS without crashing it. As is typical for what passes for bike magazines in the US, both Cycle World and Motorcyclist fell all over themselves giving the company that built it free publicity. By the way, the "300 MPH top end" was "not accounting for aerodynamic drag". Since air drag is about 99.99% of the drag at 300 MPH (about 500 KPH) the statement is, to be kind, misleading. Lex

Dr, Well, it is kinda' long but it is interesting. If it helps at all I now feel much better about wimping out and driving the car to the show. Sort of like glad you suffered so much as it lets me feel less like a whip, sorry. Bay Area traffic in that weather would be scary indeed. Glad you made it without any really bad stories. Lex

Ok, so I enjoyed picking on you because I've done the same thing on this very forum. FWIW, I've seen the comment about the British magazines being better than the American equivalents several times. In my opinion they are both pretty poor, just poor in different ways. I still miss good 'ol Cycle. The only magazine I have any faith in these days is Motorcycle Consumer News and they seem to be slipping. With all that I still buy them. It seems I'm just a junky. I guess it is better then being hooked on booze or other some other drug. The weather cleared, I'm going for a ride. Lex

Sorry? First Cycle has been gone for 15 years so I don't see how it could favor anything. Second, Cycle was most defiantly not a pro Japanese bike mag when it was in print. You might remember Cook Nielson, the first person to win a US Superbike race (Dayton, no less) on a Ducati. He was Editor in Chief. How about (senior editor) Phil Schilling's heart rending story of re-restoring his late fifties Ducati 175 after it was destroyed in a fire? More to the point here, nobody covered the V7, Le Mans, etc. Moto Guzzis in the Seventies like Cycle. My buying my V11 was, to a degree, the result of the seed Cycle planted in the early seventies. Maybe you should read things more carefully before you respond, I can only assume you are thinking of Cycle World, a different situation altogether. Common sense is, often, another word for someone's opinion. Everyone is fee to have one, even me. If you can show me an example of an engine worn out prematurely as a result of contaminates passed by the air filter while running a K&N I'll change my opinion. As it is I've seen engines with plenty of miles running K&Ns. One example was friend who put 80K very hard miles on a K100RS. By very hard I mean commuting in heavy traffic, frequent top speed runs on certain roads in Nevada and the less populated parts of California and a fair number of miles on dirt roads. At 80K it would pull similar bikes on top speed runs, used no oil and had required a single valve shim replacement after the 600 mile adjustment. We didn't take it apart but the bike's performance would indicate the rings, cylinder walls and valves were in pretty good shape. This is backed up by both independent testing and the opinions of people who know a lot more then me about the subject. Personally, I have the paper filter in all three of my bikes but I've run K&Ns in the past and never seen any unusual wear. If you prefer to run paper filters you certainly are not hurting anything, and if it gives you piece of mind that alone is a good reason to use them. Lex

Wow, I haven't been on this site for a while but some of you guys must be really bored. Six pages on air filters? Being just as bored...* First, Cycle magazine proved to my satisfaction 30 years ago that the deference in effectiveness between the types of filters is pretty much irrelevant. Simply measuring the volume of material the filter allows to pass is a false test, knowing the size of the particle passing through the filter is as important knowing how much passed the filter. The reason is that a particle less than the thickness of the oil film has no effect, they are suspended in the oil and never gets a chance act as a grinding compound in your engine. This material is either caught in the oil filter or goes out with the next oil change. I don't recall the size and I'm much to lazy to look it up. All the filters in the test, oiled gauze (K&N,) oiled foam (Uni), paper, worked well enough to do their jobs. A special consideration (e.g. oiled foam is good in very wet conditions) might push you in one direction or another, otherwise they are all about the same. None of the filters I am aware of, properly installed and maintained, will have a measurable effect on engine life. In some cases a less restrictive air filter might add a little power, in other cases it will not. My point? Simply that if you want maximum performance the only way to get it is to try everything on a dyno (or copy someone who has) and put the bike together based on model specific, empirical data. Approaching this as religion (brand X good, brand Y bad) will just waste money and time. If you just want to ride the silly thing, use what you like (paper is cheap, Uni, K&N and most other aftermarket filters release some of the cool intake noise and maybe a little power) and don't worry about it. Except maybe when you can't ride and screwing with the bike, or talking about it on the internet, is better then no bike time at all. Lex Waiting with less then total patience for the March ride to Death Valley to signify the end to Central California's short "can't ride much" season. *Weather here is the worst, not raining right now but everything is wet from the last rain and more is coming. Besides the water most roads have nice piles of sand at various points to make riding more adventures than I really enjoy. Great weather for a dirt or dual purpose bike, which I don't have.

Fernando, I'm with you on this one. I've never owned a Harley but if I had the money and garage space I would. When you are in the mood to cruise they are the right machine. The new ones are as good as the "back to the future" riders that make of a large part of Harley's customer base will allow. If prices become reasonable I could see myself on a Road King or a Road Glide. OTOH, I may be the only guy in America who has a garage full of tools but would need more (imperial crap, my tools are almost all metric) if I bought one. The only negative I know of is the large number of total a**holes who ride them. Real Harley people (I.E. long time riders who are into Harleys because they like to ride them, not because they think sitting on one in a costume they bought at the Harley store makes them look like they have a life) are great, the RUB crowd gives Harleys a bad name. I would most defiantly not be a member of the local HOG chapter. I also have to say I find it a little depressing to see people who buy expensive, not very reliable, slow compared to the Japanese option, quirky bikes (Moto Guzzis) putting down other people who buy expensive, not as reliable or fast as the Japanese stuff, quirky bikes. Maybe I'm sensitive since my other two bikes are a Ducati (aren't all Ducati owners elitist snobs?) and a BMW (aren't all BMW owners anal retentive elitist snobs?) but it seems like some folks around here be to unclench a little, we're all in this together. Just my , Lex

Joe, Having both my much loved 2001 V11 Sport and my fond of but no loved (yet) 1000DS Multistrada I understand your decision. I'm not 100% sure the Ducati is as big an improvement in reliability (insterment cluster problems) as I hoped but I really enjoy riding the Duck. While the Sport is intense, involving and rewarding it is also not much fun on anything but twisty roads. The Ducati is just plain fun to ride at any speed on any road from running errands in traffic (such as it is around here) to twisties to interstate like the ride I did today. A little tight stuff (Old Creek Road), a little interstate (US 101), and a little Xmas shopping in Paso Robles and San Luis obispo. The suspension/ chassis of the Ducati is light years ahead of the Guzzi. I hope the new (Breva, Griso, Falcone) Guzzis are nearly as good. Getting pretty sick of the bleepin' chain, OTOH. Not as cool as this site (great site but lacking the sort of family feel here) but check out Multistrada.net if you haven't already. Lots of good info. Plenty of 620s, not as 1000 oriented as it would be if it was an all US site. Having both is the best option, Lex P.S. I'm "Goose" over there. Got to keep the Guzzi connection alive.

ferguzzi, Not boring, just frustrating. Guinness on tap? Very rare in my area. We are making some good beer in the US these days but finding anything but the mass marketed rice beer crap is tough in the boonies. Finding something like Anchor Steam is a big deal, finding Guinness is about as common as winning the lottery. All is not lost, I had a couple of (bottled) Anchor Steams with a very good steak last night, you just have to go to the "big" town a little east of my home. Cheers, Lex

Much better then enlightening, fascinating. Thank very much for posting the link. I would never have thought to look on the NASCAR (oops, I mean Speed) channel for anything 1/10th this interesting. Four thumbs on my scale :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Lex

You guys really had me interested in the cool coffee cups but I'm afraid Belfast wins this one. I haven't had real Guinness (draft, un-pasteurized) since my last trip to the UK years ago. (sigh) I don't care what Guinness says, the stuff in the bottles and cans is a pale imitation of the real thing, that weird CO2 thing doesn't help. Dry mouthed, Lex

MotoGP is going from 990 to 800 CC in 2007. This is to make racing safer. Yup, I'm sure bikes with narrower power bands and more abrupt power delivery will be much safer. Did anybody bother to ask the riders if they wanted this change? Speaking as a fan, I'd rate the current MotoGP bikes as extremely enjoyable to watch, the balance of power to chassis to brakes seems to be very good. Suzuki and Kawasaki are finally getting enough power to get in the top ten. Things are going really well for the series, I guess that makes it time for the FIM to f*ck things up. Sorry, I'm pretty sick of every racing series I follow (AMA superbike, WSB, MotoGP, F1) being run by idiots intent on building up the fan base for NASCAR and stick and ball sports. Lex

Guy, Last first: Yup, nothing really matters but Rossi was on the top on the box and Hayden was first loser. I've read several times one of the most important things is a successful team is a strong leader. Stories of Mick Doohan telling the Honda engineers the new, improved for 1997 part is crap, put the 1995 part back on the bike are legend. I think the focus that comes from having a clear, strong leader in Rossi is another part of Yamaha's success. The Honda people seem to be trying to go in four directions at once. Until a strong leader comes up HRC is at a disadvantage, budget the size the GNP of a small country not withstanding. We'll see more on Sunday, will Haden keep inching (25.6 millimeter-ing?) closer? Will Milandri get that tiny improvement he needs? It will be fun to watch. Lex

You need to pay more attention the trap speeds at the races. The Yamaha is almost never the fastest bike on the track, the Hondas and Ducatis have the top end. Besides his incredible riding what Rossi (or rather, his crew chief Jeremy Burgess) brought to Yamaha was an old racing truism: Top speed helps you once, maybe twice a lap. Smooth, strong acceleration helps you off every corner. The pre-Rossi M1 was called "a beast" because it was so hard to ride, now it turns well and accelerates very well. When you see a better rider on a Guzzi run off from a superbike the Guzzi guy is doing what Rossi is doing, he is on the gas sooner and on the brakes later, magically making the Guzzi "faster" then a bike that has much more power. Years ago I drove a guy on a ZX-10 Kawasaki nuts this way on my R100GS. Then the road straightened out and this blur when by me... I next saw him after he stopped at a cross road. But, somebody watching on the other part of the road could easily think my 50 HP BMW was as fast or faster than the 120 HP Kawasaki. Back to Nicky, I think last weekend was a little closer then you think. I lost faith in the Kentucky Kid last year, this year I think he is getting pretty close. Nicky set fastest lap and was closing on Rossi at the end of he race, nobody has been able to touch Rossi at the end of a race all year. Next year will tell the final tale, Nicky is (finally) going to have major input in the new (2006) bike. Remember, this year's bike was developed for Max "front end washout" Biaggi. I'm not (quite) dumb enough to bet against Rossi but I do hope Hayden will make him work for championship number eight. Throw in Mallandri (also input in the '06 Honda) and things could be much closer. At least I hope '06 will be closer. OTOH, if Rossi leaves in '07 it will leave a huge void in MotoGP but make for much better racing. It will be fun in any case, Lex

I've enjoyed reading the responses to this post. I think you guys get it, I just hope the people a Moto Guzzi are as astute. I'm sure the Brevas are great bikes but I just can't see anybody lusting after them like they do for a V11 or did for the Le Mans or will for the Sport Classics. BTW, I find Nogbad's comment about pricing surprising. The Sport 1000 is $10,500 USD, $1,500 less than the Breva 1100, is pricing that much different on the other side of the Atlantic? A Guzzi that look like and old one but runs like a modern bike would be very cool and might be a big seller. The V11 Sport is close but it needs a modern frame and a slightly stronger engine and a general upgrading (better electrical system and a much better ECU to name two things) to be what it could be. My V11 runs really well now but it took two years, a stack of money and a bunch time to get it that way. People on this list might say so what, that is part of the fun, but I think we are a small minority of the buy public. People these days want to buy a bike that runs well, spend a few, or a lot of, bucks paying someone to "customize" it (so it looks like every other one on the road) and never get their hands dirty. goffrodo's comments are interesting because I think he is absolutely correct about some things (the Super Sports are a disaster) but others don't line up with my understanding of Ducati's financial situation. While things are not great Ducati is supposed to break even this year and make a tiny profit next year. While hardly great news that is better then the situation at Aprilia and Moto Guzzi. I do agree whole heartedly that Ducati would be in much better shape it they got Terblanche some help in the styling department I don't think things are quite as dire as you think. To be clear, my new bike is far from perfect. I've grown to love parts of my Multistrada's styling but the front of the fairing is a just not right. The good news is that I don't have to look at the fairing when I am riding it, what I can see looks just fine. OTOH, don't even get me started about the fuel (fool) gauge, this isn't a Honda for sure. Sunday I looked down at the gauge, I had 90 mile to the end of the tank, five minutes later the low fuel light was on and the range to end of tank was "-----" as the low fuel light had come on and cleared all the other read outs! Will some one please kill the person responsible? The good side is when this happened I was riding on a road I had no intension of riding when I set out, this bike just makes you want to keep going and going. Lex

Big J, My bike has the "pre-muffler" removed and replaced with a simple (and customer made, really beautiful work*) 2 into 1 collector. Stock air box, filter and main muffler. With the pipe and the ECU work Trevor said it was pulling 102 HP at the rear wheel. All I can say is that it is much faster than my Stucchi X-piped, Staintune muffled, relieved air box, PCIII'ed V11. Being a bunch lighter doesn't hurt but for what the seat of the pants dyno is worth (OK, not much) the Duck is considerably stronger than the Goose. I will say the Guzzi sounds better, I don't know why but the low pitched Guzzi sounds better then the higher pitched Desmodue my ear. I still enjoy the V11 but it feels like a really cool antique next to the Ducati, sorry guys. If Guzzi wants to compete (and I hope they will) they better be working late, coming in on the weekends and generally trying very hard. The Ducati is not perfect, far from it, but they got the important stuff right, very right. Lex *A prototype of an aftermarket part Pro Italia is developing.

I've been toward the front of the line criticizing Pierre T. at Ducati, specifically about the Multistrada and the "Sport Classis". I'm still no fan of the looks of the Multistrada's sytling but it works so well I don't care. Especially after Trevor Dunn at Pro Italia Santa Barbara did some work on the exhaust and ECU of my bike, YEE-HAW! Back to the subject, I just saw the Paul Smart and the Sport (still no sign of the GT) from the Sport Classic line at Pro Italia and I take back all the bad things I said about them. These things are gorgeous IRL. If Paul Smart is still on this list I hope to has his order in, at least in the US they are sold out. Anybody (and by that I mean Moto Guzzi) looking to exploit the classic sport bike nitch better work very hard. The Sport Classics have the same Desmodue DS engine as my Multistrada, quiet, smooth and generally running like a stocker but putting out a touch over 100 RWHP and getting 38 to 42 MPG. Did I mention good warranty support? About the only negative is the silly demo systems but I guess nothing is perfect. Lex