Greg Field
-
Posts
1,920 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
1
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Gallery
Community Map
Posts posted by Greg Field
-
-
Read the part number on the underside of the lower triple. As I said before, there're lots of combos of parts possible, and some retrofitting was done, but in general, the ones with an axle nut have the non-canted triples.
-
Guzzimoto: Which forks on your wife's bike? (Axle nut or not?)
-
No need for twitchy demons when you have canted clamps.
Who here still believes that Guzzi went to all that trouble only because of a journalist's criticism? Hatchetwhacker will, no doubt, but how 'bout the sane amongst you?
-
Offset bearings are a different thing. In racing you may change out the clamps for ones with a different offset but this has nothing to do with rake. It is about trail. Offset bearings are used to change the rake but they actually move the steering pivot. What Greg seems to be suggesting is different. He seems to be saying that they bored the holes in the clamps at an angle so that the fork tubes were not at the same angle as the steering stem. If this is not what he is saying them I'm sorry, I may be misunderstanding him. But if you change the rake "in the clamps" that is different to me then offsetting the steering stem (which is really just changing the steering head angle without the hassle of actually moving the steering head).
Guzzimoto: You are understanding me correctly. The later triple clamps include a 1/2-degree of cant compared to the steering axis. These gray "canted" triple clamps were used through the end of the red-frames. In general, if your red-frame's forks have an axle nut, they also have the early non-"canted" clamps and if your red-frame has an axle that screws directly into the fork leg, it has the "canted" clamps. There is some crossover between axle-fixing arrangements and clamps, though, and Guzzi offered a kit of the "canted" clamps for people who wanted to reduce twitchiness of their early bikes, so any combination of parts is possible. Rosso Mandellos had black "canted" triple clamps. Starting with the LeMans, Guzzi again fitted non-"canted" clamps, but they were painted black.
-
It's in the parts books. It's in Guzziology.
Edited to add that Guzzi has done this (revising geometry through use of revised triple clamps) before, most notably with the LeMans 1000 after some horrible crashes, and they also offered sidecar triple clamps for some of the other bikes. It's not unusual for Guzzi, which was one of the points of my original post on this matter.
-
I think I posted he frame number through which the early triple clamps were used. Use that as your guide as to whether or not your bike has them. Or how hard your steering damper is screwed on to make it "stable."
-
I guess it was great horned demons who told you all your facts. SOP on this whacker forum . . .
-
According to all primary documentation I've seen, all the red frames are 25 degrees on the frame. But, as I've said before, the later red-frames have revised triple clamps that impart a 1/2 degree lazier rake. This is what makes them less twitchy red frames than the first red frames. As for the 26-degree rake on the LeMans frames, I've heard some of you say it but have yet to see primary documentation that this is so.
-
FWIW, the factory engineering drawing in the Guzzi service manual for the short frame Sport shows a spine to steering head angle of 88 degrees, 30 minutes.
The diagram in one I have shows 25 degrees from horizontal. I'm sure if that's the same a 88:30 or not, but that's what my manual shows.
-
I believe all red frames and the black one from the RM are the same. The early red-frames had different triple clamps, though, with 1/2 degree steeper rake.
So far as I know, the LeMans-on frame has the same rake as the red-frame, but was stretched. I'm not 100 percent sure that the rake was not changed, but I have never seen a primary source definitively saying that it was, so I choose not to assume it was changed just because everybody says it was.
-
Please elaborate, Greg. I thought the earlier (often referred to as red frame) V11 Sports had a 1 degree steeper head angle. Is this a separate change to the steeper steering head angle and is this 1/2 degree really in the clamps and not the steering stem? And is there a change in trail to go along with this? And are you saying that all pre LeMans V11s use the same frame, that the black ones and the red ones both have the same head angle? I was under the impression that the color actually meant something and that the red fame bikes were different to the others. If this is not true that is very interesting to me.
I'm pretty damn sure the steering angle on the frame was unchanged from beginning through the last pre-LeMans bike. All red-colored frames have the same part number. The part number was changed for the Rosso Mandello because it is coated black. The angle change was made in the triple clamps at the frame number listed earlier.
-
Just wanted to blow the dust off this thread for a moment...
I've been trying track one of these deep sumps down off and on for a few years now. But, I finally found one! Just arrived today from Teo Lamers
Their site is showing 3 more in stock, so if anyone is interested: http://www.tlm.nl/magazijn/webshop/detail.html?aid=12166
I haven't laid eyes on it yet, but I just got an email from my mechanic who says it was delivered today. I had it sent to him because I might miss the package otherwise. Can't wait to lay hands on it... finally!
__Jason
I have one in stock at Moto Intl., too.
-
I don't know why we all get hung up on the frame color. I did because that seemed to be the fashion in this discussion, when it is actually meaningless to the discussion. All the pre-LeMans V11 Sports use the same frame (except that the Rosso Mandello's is coated black).
What is meaningful is a discussion of triple clamps. Early (to frame 113032) bikes used triple clamps with 1/2 degree steeper rake. It is these that show the greatest tendency to instability, though even the later ones sometimes do, too.
-
Well, the Madame has only bested me once. I attribute that to trying to punch through the roads around Mt. St. Helens too early. Too much moss left on the road, and the front tire just let loose of the tarmac. Other than that incident, I've always wrassled her to running straight again. That bike just loves humiliating V11 Sports and Ducatis and such, so when I give it its head to do such things, it treats me right. Long may it continue to so so.
-
I do have a fairing and bags. It's also jacked up pretty good so it has vastly improved cornering clearance. It wobbled before all that shit, though. Some of 'em just do. Maybe I have the evil twin of the one that the Guzzi test rider was killed on?
-
Yes, Ratchetwhack. Illuminating to say the least.
-
I have a Brown Bess flintlock I built, in the safe. I ain't askeered of no 12-gauge . . .
-
Jon:
My Eldo's a wobbler. Ask Pedro about it if you ever want a fright. He wasn't on it 5 minutes and didn't reach 80 mph and almost died. 'Course I was so far ahead on his Eldo that I missed it all, and 5 minutes before, I was taking sweepers at 120 on that lovely machine, but it sure ain't for the timid and inexperienced. Thinking back, the last two riders besides me before him were my buddy Kevin and Motomonster. Kevin crashed it. He said he was trying to avoid hitting a dopg, but you know how those stories go. Monster didn't indicate there was any problem. Not all riders are equal, but that's pretty obvious. All of you who are so scared of your red-frames that you fear riding sans damper: Maybe it's you that's the problem? Perhaps the speed of your whacking is insufficient? Perhaps you're putzes? Perhpas your bikes really ain't all that stable?
-
I think it's time to start insulting Docc. I'll begin: He's a quack.
-
Greg,
I'm off to ride my eldo, but with so many roper v11 parts on it, should I reinstall the stock 40 year old damper? Inquiring minds, er, uh.....
The parts are from a Scura, so they should be stable. I bet them yaller forks look good on that white Eldo. Be sure to crank up ratchet's damper as you pass him in the corner on your superior, real-steel Guzzi . . .
-
I had a big problem installing this stand too.
Stand would not clear Stuchhi cross over,and will just fit with factory cross over.
Any tips on how to refit with Stuchhi cross over?
Some of the mounting bolts supplied with the kit appear to be a little on the short side and may be worth replacing if you dont want the stand to work loose.
You're going to have to pound some clearance divots in the crossover, or return to using the stock crossover. The stand will also work with the Mistral crossover.
-
Do those who whack also grasp? Enquiring minds, what?
Off to ride my damper-free V11 in the abscense of fear . . .
-
Not sure. Mine isn't touchy anywhere. Maybe that's 'cause I do not know enough to set it up "properly" I wonder how much Ratchet would charge me to make mine unstable? Being a poor dumbass, I'm sure I could not afford it. Add in the price of a steering damper, and I'd have to sell my house, I'm sure.
Being too depressed by this to do otherwise, I think I'll just ride it, as I did today to work. No steering damper. and I didn't die. I'm the luckiest SOB yet born, I guess. Maybe if I did more whacking . . .? BFG: Are you listening?
-
On another, related, note:
Why is 45 mph ( about 72 kph) the point at which motorcycles are most unstable (wobble prone)?
Seems like Kevin Cameron 'splained this once, but I don't recall; something about the harmonics of the front wheel size?
So, the same speed for a 21-inch wheel as a 16? Do not believe everything he writes. I have edited him in the past. What he turns in as copy bears only the most general structural relationship to what you actually read in a magazine or book, or at least it did then . . .
Q: Who “Needs” a Steering Damper?
in Technical Topics
Posted
I wonder if Pavlov ever tired of his dogs?