guzzi323
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Posts posted by guzzi323
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I was just looking at your driveshaft pics. They are a little small to be able to see everything clearly. I wanted to mention that on my driveshaft the mis-alignment was not obvious (like your original shaft). I'd recommend a very close examination of the new driveshaft.
johnk
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Scura just under 28,000 miles & front UJ exploded rather spectacularly.
Hello again.
Our shared Scura curse strikes again. In case you didn't see it a while back I had a different failure traced back to the un-alignable driveshaft thoughtfully provided by Moto Guzzi.
http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15638In mine the transmission went. The u-joints were fine and I had the drivehsaft yokes aligned by an automotive machine shop that deals with driveshafts all day long.
I haven't been riding much the past year or so but the bike now has over 70K on that original, re-aligned shaft and it's still fine. For the record, I only lube the driveshaft when replacing the rear tire (and I think I may have forgotten to get it once or twice) but that seems to be sufficient to keep things happy.
Glad you're alright.
johnk
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Looks good!
Do you have a picture of it on your V11?
Which size are you using , medium or large?
I could have sworn I had more pics but this is the only one I could find.
A dirty Scura loaded for action.
I have a large bag and I love it.
johnk
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I've really liked using this bag on my V11.
Aerostich imports them (from Japan, I believe) and It holds my tent, sleeping bag, pad and more and sits across the passenger seat. I have the large one which is wide enough that my tent poles can fit in the bag though if you get a smaller one there are places to strap long thin items (like tent poles) on the outside of the bag. I've used it on a few trips (including 2k miles on the Trans America Trail on a DR350) and the thing looks almost new.
johnk
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The search function on this site never works quite how I think it will but I did find a thread with a pic.
http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10930&view=findpost&p=119103
It makes it a little more work to change the filter because you have to remove the oil pan but it's really not that bad.
johnk - (Who once had his oil filter back out and blow his rod bearings and now has a clamp on his filter.)
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Heard from Pete at Reeboot.
The unit he has is a 10 spring twin-plater from a low mileage Griso with correct pushrod hub.He said starter gear is clean and will inspect internals once disassembled .He said the 10 springers are much lighter than the 8's.
What do you guys think?
I have no experience with the feel and performance of the CARC clutch's .What about durability.PR,I know you have first hand knowledge of the Scura and Griso, so would appreciate your take on this swap
Cheers
Michael
I bought the same clutch from reboot for my Scura and it went in with no problems. It's definitely a little slower to rev and the effort at the clutch lever feels a little higher but it's still quite reasonable. I'm very happy with the clutch and the peace of mind it offers.
johnk
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Well if plan B fails you can do what I did as your plan C. I used an Autometer speedometer but this hall sensor would probably work for your VDO gauge as well.
This is from an older thread on speedo replacement here..http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16879
I put a white faced Autometer speedo on my Scura and use an industrial hall sensor to run it.
The Autometer speedo is not designed for 'outdoor' use and it does get moisture in it. So far this hasn't been a problem beyong the face fogging up.
If I recall correctly the housing even had a little drain hole in it.
It's a white faced with (non fading, I might add) flourescent needle with a chrome bezel. It's a resonably close match for the original
I used the sensor number GS100502 on this page to drive it.
http://www.cherrycor...gs1005_1009.htm
If you read through the little bit of technical info on that page it mentions using a pull up resistor which I didn't do initially and I got a bit of electrical noise that made it occaisionally behave more like a tach than a speedo.
Once I installed the pull up resistor it's been great.
I drilled a hole in the rear brake hanger and positioned the sensor to read the heads of the disc mounting bolts. It's only 6 pulses per revolution but it works at anything over 5 mph.
Good luck.
johnk
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I copied this from a different thread a few years ago. The speedo's still operating flawlessly after about 25k miles only in all weather (though the needles has started to fade just a little).
I put a white faced Autometer speedo on my Scura and use an industrial hall sensor to run it.
The Autometer speedo is not designed for 'outdoor' use and it does get moisture in it. So far this hasn't been a problem beyong the face fogging up.
If I recall correctly the housing even had a little drain hole in it.
It's a white faced with (non fading, I might add) flourescent needle with a chrome bezel. It's a resonably close match for the original
I used the sensor number GS100502 on this page to drive it.
http://www.cherrycor...gs1005_1009.htm
If you read through the little bit of technical info on that page it mentions using a pull up resistor which I didn't do initially and I got a bit of electrical noise that made it occaisionally behave more like a tach than a speedo.
Once I installed the pull up resistor it's been great.
I drilled a hole in the rear brake hanger and positioned the sensor to read the heads of the disc mounting bolts. It's only 6 pulses per revolution but it works at anything over 5 mph.
If I can come up with a cheap and easy to mount ABS ring from some bike I'll swap over to that but for now this works fine.
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Hmmm, "cross country next week . . ." Coming to the South'n Spine Raid on the TN/NC border??
I'm afraid not. I won't be leaving until Tuesday or so..
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My driveshaft appears to have been assembled incorrectly at the factory. It wasn't possible to completely align the painted marks (I could them them pretty close) as the splines wouldn't let me. With the 'best choice' alignment the yokes were still not lined up perfectly. I made it something like 60k miles before a bearing gave out and the tranny locked up. I've since rebuilt the tranny and taken the driveshaft to a good driveshaft shop where they aligned the yokes (cut and rewelded the driveshaft halves).
It's been about 12 thousand miles and all seems well. The u-joints are still in great shape with just regular lubing.
I'm contemplating a cross-country trip on it in a week so I hope it all holds together..
(We need a 'finger's crossed' emoticon. I just looked through them and nothing there seems applicable).
I love my V11. I really shouldn't (no rational man would after everything I've gone through with it) but I do...
johnk
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Once while riding my Scura, I looked down at a stoplight and saw oil everywhere and huge clouds of smoke from the oil on my headers. The timing case cover hadn't been torqued down properly at the factory and the gasket blew out a small section.
Maybe this is what happened to you?
johnk
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What about finding a speedo from a J4-branded bike or a Harley that is the same form factor so it is an easy swap out? Then it's just an issue of recalibration, vs. having to open up the PITA Vagueliar and replacing its guts & suture.
I can never get the search function here to do what I want but I know I wrote something a few years back about replacing my busted speedo.
I put a white faced Autometer speedo on my Scura and use an industrial hall sensor to run it.
The Autometer speedo is not designed for 'outdoor' use and it does get moisture in it. So far this hasn't been a problem beyong the face fogging up.
If I recall correctly the housing even had a little drain hole in it.
It's a white faced with (non fading, I might add) flourescent needle with a chrome bezel. It's a resonably close match fo the original
I used the sensor number GS100502 on this page to drive it.
http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/sensors/Speed_Direction/gs1005_1009.htm
If you read through the little bit of technical info on that page it mentions using a pull up resistor which I didn't do initially and I got a bit of electrical noise that made it occaisionally behave more like a tach than a speedo.
Once I installed the pull up resistor it's been great.
I drilled a hole in the rear brake hanger and positioned the sensor to read the heads of the disc mounting bolts. It's only 6 pulses per revolution but it works at anything over 5 mph.
If I can come up with a cheap and easy to mount ABS ring from some bike I'll swap over to that but for now this works fine.
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Hi John, Did you get this sorted? KB
I tell ya this thing hates me.
Yes, the tranny/driveshaft went all back with no problems. Everything was working quite well.
Then I went for a long ride and it busted a ring 250 miles from home Lots of smoke. Burning a quart of oil every 60 miles or so.
I just picked up my new cylinder/pistons on my way into work this morning.
I should have just set the thing on fire on the side of the road but I'm not smart enough for that.
I'm sure it'll be great with no more problems...this time.
johnk (more money than sense, apparently)
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I've been lusting after the SMT since I first heard about it a few years ago.
If I had the money that's what I'd be replacing my Scura with now (but I don't).
The only thing I'm not thrilled about is the size of the saddlebags.
I've got 42 liter Givi's right now and I've gotten really spoiled.
That KTM really looks like the ideal balance of hooligan fun with practicality and comfort.
johnk
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It looks like Mark Ethridge of Moto Guzzi Classics is parting out a V11. You could ask him about the driveshaft...could be ??? cheaper than having one rewelded??? I have not idea on it; I just noticed Mark had a few parts on fleabay.
Thanks for the 'heads up' on that but I've already got it at the shop and they'll probably be done with it this week. I believe it'll be ~$175.00 and it'd be a little cheaper except he has to make a quick jig to hold it in his balancer as he currently doesn't have anything the right size.
johnk
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Of note, typical driveshaft house may not understand the amount of angle or implications this shaft undergoes. A shop that specializes in off road 4x4's and extreme driveshaft angles would / should get the picture. Most high performance drag shops should also understand, when you explain that this shaft undergoes about 4" of travel under normal use.
Thanks Emery. I had already decided I was pulling it back apart after inner tonight.
At least it's only the driveshaft I need to get to.
I found another automotive machine shop that specializes in drivetrain work. Hopefully this one will work out better.
That last one I went to was recommended by someone, but I didn't have a good feeling about the place.
johnk
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I took the shaft into my local Guzzi Dealer and had their Guzzi guy look at it.
He believes it came from the factory that way as he didn't see any signs of twisting, just mis-alignment.
He's been working on Guzzi's about 20 years so I'd think he'd be a reasonable person to check it out.
johnk
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Hmmm. To be honest I wasn't entirely satisfied with my experience at that machine shop but they're supposed to know about these things (at least they're supposed to know more than me) so I went with what they said.
I guess I'll ask around for some more local shop references what them look at it.
That last machine shop was recommended though. It's hard to know who to trust, you know?
Thank you for your input.
johnk
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Well I took the driveshaft to a machine shop that deals with such things and they felt it was fine.
I've now placed a much easier to read alignment mark on it.
I got the bike back together over the weekend and it all seems good.
I just need to get over my transmission induced PTSD and learn to relax again and enjoy riding it.
This morning's commute had me paranoid over any little noise or vibration, whether real or imagined, I came across.
Reminded me of of the days riding my old RD400F.
The joys of motorcycling waiting for the engine to seize. Those were the good old days, eh?
Thank you all for your help.
johnk
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Forget the paint marks for now. Can you slide the shaft apart and rotate one half of the shaft 1/2 turn and reassemble the driveshaft to see if it aligns any better?
Do you know anything about the history of the bike? If you cannot get this to align correctly, it mighy be time for another driveshaft.
BTW, is there a machine shop nearby you can take this to before you reinstall it?
The way it is in those last 2 pictures is as good as it gets for yoke alignment.
It didn't look all that good to me which was why I was asking about the driveshaft.
I've owed the bike since new but I'm guessing it's not worth my time asking Guzzi for a free driveshaft (let alone transmission).
I know of many machine shops, are you thinking they might be able to cut and weld the driveshaft?
That never would have occurred to me. The u-joints do feel great.
johnk
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20 spline on the V11 I belive. 10 spline on the Sports etc. with the five speed box.
It should be able to be aligned pretty much exactly. Try just turning it a spline at a time and see if you can get it right? Makes you wonder if it isn't a mismatched front and rear?
Pete
That's as good as it gets. That side view corresponds with this view of the alignment marks.
It's a little hard to see but the reference mark on the right side is still a little off.
They're close but in no case am I able to line up the paint marks or the yokes.
If I could line up the marks I'm pretty certain the yokes would be lined up as well.
I take it at least some of you would recommend a driveshaft purchase as well?
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Anytime drive-shaft yokes are out of phase a pretty substantial vibration will occur. I've seen it many times on trucks with two piece drive-shafts. If someone puts it together wrong it will vibrate enough to be felt through out the vehicle. I have to think the related bearings (transmission and rear end) are taking a beating.
What about when they are out of phase to the degree shown here. This is as close as I can get with my driveshaft.
It's not perfect but would you think this is good enough?
Thx,
johnk
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The misalignment will cause constant loading and unloading of the shafts but a case failure isn't waht I'd expect. Usually it is things like the cages of the bearings that will fail in these circumstances. In this case I have no brilliant ideas what caused the failure. Imperfect casting would seem the obvious one but it looks to me to be simple bad luck rather than anything sheetable home to a definite 'Mechanical' cause.
And yes. I'd suggest it would be cheaper to look for a 2nd hand transmission than to fart about with that one.
Pete
Pete,
For the record the bearing that sits where the case is broken is completely f@#&ked. There's a ball from it wedged between the shaft and the hole in the case.
I think it's quite possible the bearing is what took out the case.
johnk
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Well I believe Pete's initial thought was correct.
Thanks for being here Pete or I might not of noted the driveshaft position before removing.
Though I must take responsibility because I was the last guy to work on it, I must say the alignment marks are a bit ambiguous.
Here's the position it was in.
And this is with the shaft halves assembled with on the next spline.
You can see that the paint mark on the right side never really aligns with the left, though with these nice, clear benchtop views it is apparent that the second position is closer to correct.
Here's another view of how I assembled them.
And how I believe they should have been assembled.
Looking at the yokes it's apparent that neither position actually does a really good job of aligning them which brings up my question of since neither one is truly correct, should I be replacing the driveshaft of is the closer one good enough?
I'd really prefer to only go through this once.
Which brings us to part 2 of the saga.
I haven't completely disassembled the transmission yet but I have a good idea of the damage.
The rear bearing on the upper secondary shaft went out.
When the bearing went it took out part of the rear transmission case.
Pete, is this a typical of the damage when the yokes are out of alignment?
You can see the missing piece sitting on the bench.
My thought is the case isn't worth repairing.
Looking through the side cover I wasn't able to see much more damage but I'm guessing that's enough to warrant looking for a new transmission.
So at this point I have two questions for you.
1) Anybody got a V11 6 speed transmission for sale?
2) I'm open to opinions on that driveshaft alignment. Is 'better than I had it' good enough or should I be replacing it?
Seeing as I found out my company is closing and I'll be looking for work in a couple of months I'd rather avoid buying more than I need. (The u-joints feel feel great after 65k miles, so there's some good news)
For me, the moral of the story is "If your driveshaft alignment marks aren't entirely clear enough for you, pull the shaft off the bike and paint your own marks."
Thank you all for you time and thoughts on this.
Time for some of these
:bier: :bier: johnk
Luggage Carrier
in Technical Topics
Posted
What's the red thing just below your oil cooler ... upgraded horn, deer scarer ..?
Upgraded horns (there's another one on the other side). They're Hella and they used to be my favorite horn but now I like this compact Stebel horn.
It can be a challenge to find a place to mount them, however.
johnk