guzzi323
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Posts posted by guzzi323
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Well the noise sounded a bit 'heavy' to be the friction plate but at this point there's no way to know. As far as the flywheel is concerned there were no marks or signs of any problem at all. That's with over 22k miles on it.
I hope that's the last of my major problems until things legitimately wear out.
johnk
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Well it's been a couple of days since I got my Scura back together and so far my nasty clutch area clunk noise is gone. In addition to the not very tight flywheel bolts the splines on the friction plate were pretty hammered. It had at least twice the free play on the splines than the replacement part. This I blame on there not being any lube of any kind on the splines (surprise, surprise.) I've been using anti-seize on splines like these for years and have gotten good results. A little goes a long way and it's thick enough to resist flinging off.
I guess I'll never know for sure what the noise was. Right now all I care is that I'm back on the Scura.
johnk
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I got some handlebar clamps that mount to the top triple clamp (you have to drill out yours ) at a bike shop for about $40 USD. It comes with different height options and is available for either 7/8 " or 1 1/4" handlebar diameters so you can put thick wall aluminium tapered handlebars on it you'd like.
I don't remember the manufacturer but the clamps were available from multiple parts distributors so it should be hard to find.
johnk
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If you mean the sets of holes around the perimiter of the flywheel, the middle hole us used for the positioning pin which is a pressed in steel pin used to locate the pressure plate. There are 3 sets of two bolts (with the locating pin between the pairs) which hold the entire assembly together. If I'm understanding your question.
johnk
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OK Ballacraine, I think I've figured out the discrepancy between your pic of the failed flywheel and the RAM pictures from MG cyce. The pic you have is the flywheel viewed from the crankshaft side where as all the other pics are showing the transmission side of it. When I flip mine over it looks very much like the damaged flywheel (Minus the nasty cracks and dye, for now at least)
Cheers,
johnk
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That's a picture of the aluminum flywheel for twin plate clutches. Right above that on the MG cycles page is this pic
That's the flywheel for the aluminum single plate RAM clutch.
I'll have to wait until I go home to check, but I'm pretty certain the flywheel in the above pic is identical to mine.
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I'm no structural engineer or anything but it's easy for me to imagine that if the bolts weren't quite tight enough the flywheel would be able to rotate a little in relation to the crank and in time slowly hammer itself to pieces.
One thing that does surprise me with regards to the stock setup is that the flywheel bolts are threaded all the way up the length. I'm thinking of checking out my local industrial fastener place and seeing if they can get my some similar bolts with a shoulder to better fit the flywheel.
Yes, the RAM clutch assembly uses an aluminium flywheel. My setup looks exactly like the RAM clutch pictured here... mgcyclesClutch
You'll have to scroll down a bit to see it.
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Well I'm not talking about the typical and normal clutch rattle noise. Mine was making a heavy 'clank' noise when transitioning from on/off or off/on throttle. I try to pay attention to all the little noises my bikes make and this was only happening during the first minute of running. Everything in my clutch looks fine other than the flywheel bolts weren't as tight as I would think they ought to be. If I was clever I would have checked the torque it takes to loosen them, alas it seems I'm not clever.
While talking to MG Cycles today to order my new bolts and friction plate I became convinced that the clutches on Scuras are the RAM clutch. They've found this clutch to be very reliable.
I think the few exploding Scura problems have been from incorrect bolt torque at the factory. That's my story and I'm sticking to it (until my flywheel comes hurling out of my cases at me. )
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Well I don't know how we'll ever be sure, there doesn't seem to be any visible signs of deformation of the flywheel. My theory is that the bolts weren't quite tight enough and/or loosened up combined with some minor compression of the flywheel (perhaps) made it have a small amount of 'slop' between the flywheel and the crank. Once it got a little heat in it, the aluminum would expand enough to eliminate the noise I was hearing. It only happened during the first minute or so of running when cold.
As for identifying the clutch, the diaphram spring says RAM on it. The clutch plate is a Surflex and the flywheel looks just like the picture of the RAM assembly on the mgcycles website. If anybody has more information on how to identify it, I'd love to hear about it.
If I could confirm that my clutch doesn't have the RAM flywheel, I'd love to hear that. Since the RAM's don't seem to have the hisory of problems that the Scura clutch has I'd just replace the entire assembly. Right now I'm continuing under the assumption that it's a RAM clutch and the problem is with the quality control on assembly at Guzzi.
It's a darn shame they can't seem to assemble these things properly. I have a ton of faith in the design of Moto Guzzi's, just not the execution.
My Scura is numbered 385, for the record.
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Since your bike already had a Ram unit, it's possible that whoever replaced the clutch used the same bolts again . It's my opinion that you should always use new bolts on the flywheel ( somebody will correct me
) At any rate you might want to use some of Ed's bolts
Nope that's the clutch the bike came with. I've owned it since new. That's what Guzzi's been putting in the Scura's (and I'd hazzard a guess the Rosso Mandelo's as well.)
I just hope when I get it all back together that awful noise is gone..
john
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Well I finally got my Scura apart (which was making a nasty noise from the flywheel area when it first started in the morning) and there's nothing obviously wrong. The flywheel bolts seemed not quite as tight as I would have thought they should be. Merely good and snug. Not much effort required to loosen them.
The clutch does seem to be the RAM assembly sold by MG cycles. I'm going to replace the friction plate and flywheel bolts and tighten them to the 30 ft/lbs Guzziology recommends.
After that I'll just reassemble and pray the sound is gone. Nothing else looks suspect.
BTW, the clutch hub splines were dry and visibly worn at 22K miles. I just don't understand why it's so hard for the factory to put a dab of anything on these during assembly.
Does anybody know what the new and minumum thickness is of the bronze clutch plate? Mine is 4.45 mm and there was a lot of clutch material powder stuck around the housing.
If my noise is gone on reassembly, I'm going to continue under the assumption that the occasional Scura clutch exposion is due to the flywheel bolts not being as tight as they ought to be from the factory since I've not heard of the RAM clutch being a problem in other bikes.
It seems they ought to buy those boys at the factory a torque wrench or two.
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Did it blow at the seal? I ask because mine blew out where the hose connects to the remote reservior. I've never talk to anybody who has seen a failure at this point.
This was not long after my shifter spring was replaced. I think the mechanic at the shop might not have removed the reservior out of the way when he was working on it and maybe unduly strained it. I can't imagine why it would have gone otherwise..
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I had thought about pulling the timing plug to see what's going on, but it hadn't occured to me to pull the starter. Thanks JRT!
I don't even know for sure that is where the sound is coming from but it's my best bet for now. Unfortunately now I'm reduced to commuting on my DR 350 with street knobbies on it. At least I have that. I hope to have some more time this weekend. We'll see what comes of it.
Thanks all
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Unfortunately, I may soon be in a position to shed some light on this whole Scura expoding clutch issue. But first, some history....
My Scura's clutch became 'quiet' (i.e. no noise sitting in neutral at a stop light) at about 19K miles. It worked just fine, it just gradually stopped making the rattling noise. Fast forward to 22K miles on the bike and ...
About a week or two ago I started hearing a big metallic 'clack'
noise occaisionally in the morning as I transitioned from open to closed (or closed to open) throttle. It now makes it every time the bike has been sitting for a number of hours but ONLY for the first minute or so of running. 
If you do throttle transitions very gently for the first minute or so, it's fine. After that it seems fine and you can ride it as hard as you like and it all seems good. The clutch still works smoothly even during this period of ugly noise.Needles to say, I am somewhat concerned. It's a big, nasty, scarey noise when it does it. I spent last night looking for external causes (I was thinking maybe a brake disc mounting bolt had backed out and the caliper was whacking it back into place, or something except this noise sounds bigger than that) and found nothing. Before I rip the bike apart I'm hoping somebody here might have some great idea as to the cause.
It sure would be nice if Moto Guzzi had an official response to this. I fear all us single plate 'performance' clutch folk are in for an ordeal.
I still love my Guzzi, I just don't know why. I'm reminded of all the bad girlfriends I use to have...
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Wow, I hadn't checked the link for the rest of the images. You're right, the tranny and engine might have separated from themselves and things could have been much worse..
and Al, I hadn't noticed how nice his cases looked. Hopefully Guzzi will give him some of those nice later painted cases like you got/are getting.
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DAAAAAAAANMMMMMMM!!!!!
Any idea how many miles were on it (said the Scura owner with just under 22Kmiles on his bike who is going on a 2K mile weekend ride in a couple of weeks)??
That's one ugly pic. Glad to hear he's OK.
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Anyone fitted the Throttle master with the Two Bro's Bars?
When you say Two Brother's bars, do you mean thick walled tapered aluminum bars with 1 1/8' clamps ? (I've always heard them called 'Pro-Tapers') If so and you find out what works, let us know. I tried to find out from Throttlemeister what fitment to use and they never got back to me.
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Pete,
I'm not taking my pan off for a few thousand miles, but if a winddage tray were available I would most definitely want one. I've had my light flicker a few times (both braking and accelerating from a stop) with my oil level slightly below the mid point on the dipstick.
I'd love to have a little more peace of mind.
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Any long-term update on the peg/control ergos after the installation?
Well I've got the fixin's for this conversion on order and I've got a long weekend trip in a few planned in a few weeks. If you don't hear anything by then, I'll let you know what I think.
I'm not thrilled with the looks, but I want my pegs lower and this is so damn cheap.
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that everyone else has taken the "swag")
Well, I put in a claim for the swag, but it's been back ordered so I haven't actually 'taken' it.
It's only been since last November though. Luckily I don't actually need it.
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Palo Alto speedo is well knowm amongst my car friends up here. I've also used them for a couple of busted motorcycle instruments. They aren't cheap, but they do seem to know what they're doing.
My 2 cents..
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Man,
I do not know how you go though those bushings. I have 30,000 miles on my 00 V11Sport and they show no signs of wear.
It appears that the front mounting point is offset from the mount on the final drive box. That misalignment would explain why most people don't have a problem. If things are straight there isn't any side loading on ther rubber bushing and it'll work fine.
That's my theory, at least.. Hopefully all is well now.
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Well I just went through my second set of bushings in the 'reaction rod' on the final drive box. That makes two in twenty thousand miles. To be honest, I was expecting this. The first one started sloughing off little shreads of rubber after a few thousand miles and the second one was no different. I think I've found the real problem however. It appears that the front mounting point for the arm isn't in line with the rear. This will put side loads on the rubber bushings which with a little suspension movement adds up to little pieces of rubber falling out.
I went and had delrin bushings made and went to refit the rod when I discovered that the reaction rod (please lets keep this clean, shall we?
) appears to not to have been perfectly true. A slight bend and also a slight twist to it really made fitting it with the less flexible delrin impossible. I ended up filing the bushings by hand to get it to fit. Now it's nice and snug and I actually believe it will stay fixed. It's possible that the rod damage happened when my machinist was pressing out the bushings, we'll never know for sure but I know the mounts don't line up.If I were to do it again, I'd probably use a threaded strut and heim joints like the Daytona's use. This would deal with minor misalignments without the hand fitting/hand filing that I had to do.
For future posts, can we call this thing a final drive stay arm or something like that?? Writing about reactions rods on the internet early in the morning makes me feel dirty..
Happy Friday people!!
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I emailed Throttlemeister a few weeks back asking about fitment onto Pro-taper style aluminum bars. I never heard back. If somebody knows which style to order (hopefully available in the heavy style) I'd appreciate hearing about it.
Aonther Scura clutch broken
in Technical Topics
Posted
That's what mine had when I took it apart.
johnk