pete roper

(Wheeze! Guffaw!) Yup, agree with Tex. Wonder snot is just that, (I hate getting drawn into oil threads.). For our purposes it's all bollocks. The reason they don't put zinc and phos in oil any more is because it's sudden death to catalytic converters. Does your bike have a cat-con? If I could get *proper* SF rated oil from the late '70's that's what I'd run in my old shitboxes, even the hot-rod. The thing is you can't so you get sold snake oil by the big oil companies. There again, what would I know, my oldest bike only has 300,000 miles on it. How many spineframe owners even expect to think about getting near those sorts of mileages???? Get real guys. Pete

The windage tray has three functions. Firstly it prevents the cyclonic forces cause by the spinning crank picking up oil from the sump. Secondly it aids separation of the oil from the air by effectively *Dry Sumping* the motor, oil is not kept in suspension in air flailing around the crank, (air is a great insulator.) so it cools better and finally the plate acts as a baffle helping prevent the oil sloshing about under acceleration and braking so it's less likely to migrate away from the pick-up if the front wheel is lofted. I haven't seen enough broad sump models to be able to give a definitive yay or nay as to the possibilities of using an effective plate, (I have a feeling the oil cooler/thermostat gubbins might get in the way but I'm not sure and I'm also not absolutely sure of the relative level of oil in the case with the braod sump.) but I'd be happy to if I could get my hands on one. Perhaps when John Y's bike is out of warranty or he wants me to check something out that involves taking the sump off I'll be able to have a squizz. Pete

There have been reported instances of the 'broad sump' bikes torching their big ends due to what is assumed to be starvation of the front mount pick-up. I know for sure that it can be a problem as we ran the big ends on our racebike which was fitted at that time with an 850T crankcase whicgh also has a forward mounted pickup. Turn 1 at Eastern Creek is a flat out corner that you accelerate all the way to, the oil migrated, the pump was pumping air rather than oil and it made the 'Dogga-Dogga' noise. It's important to remember that it is vital for plain bearings to have a constant supply of oil at high pressure. Even momentary starvation will cause damage. If you are pulling 6,000RPM then every time the crank turns the rods rotate once on the pin, (Or the pin rotates once in the rod if you prefer ). The pin diameter is what? On the 78mm stroke bikes it's 47mm but I think the 1100's are a bit bigger, lets say 48mm. So the surface of the bearing and the pin are going to be moving relative to each other at a rate of about 181mm per revolution. 181 x 6000 = 1086000 mm per minute, 1086m per minute! divide by 60 gives you 18.1 metres per second relative to each other. You try rubbing your arse along something at 18.1M/Ps and see how you like it without any lubrication . The bearings won't like it much either. By the time the light comes on the damage will already of been done. If you're lucky it won't be too severe if it's a one-off, modern anti-scuff agents are pretty good, but boundary lubrication WILL occur and damage WILL be done. It has been suggested that over-filling the sump can help prevent this. The problem is that the 'Broad Sump' models already have the oil closer to the crank than the earlier models so windage will be more of a problem and by putting more oil in the cases you are also increasing the presurisation problems that Guzzi big blocks are already known to have. No, I don't have any magical answers, I wish I did, but it isn't advisable to pop wheelies for this reason. Early 8 valve Ducatis had the same problems btw. If you want to pull Mono's get a traily, ts more fun on them anyway. Remember any energy wasted getting the front wheel up is energy that could be better used making the machine go forward! With a Guzzi it needs all the help it can get Pete

I'd have to say Al that since I haven't heard of any rod problems, (Apart from the recalled ones ) unless you are planning to start reving it to 10 grand on a regular basis I'd agree with Will and say don't bother. I have 4mm over Carilos in the hot-rod and they *are* beautiful but I got them because I was short stroking it and because I *did* rev it to 10 grand At which point it started torching its big ends lavishly and with gusto due to oil pump cavitation . The gains you get from over-reving a Guzzi big block come at a price. At the end of the day it is still a hemi-headed, 2 valve, air-cooled shitbox and quite simply, even with the best porting job in the world, the volumetric efficiency will drop off as the revs rise. Yes, you can play with cams and pipes and stuff to make it work much better at the top end but it will make the motor a peaky, unrideable, pig apart from when you're going flat chat!!! A few years ago one of the Oz bike magazines gave away a Carb Sport. They sent it to Barry Jones with express instructions that he should turn it into the most hairy-chested Sport imagineable. He tried to talk them out of it but they were adamant. So he built them a 100+ HP Sport C. It was won by an idiot in Bungendore and it wouldn't really pull below 5,000 and was a pig to get off the line. To get it to carburette up top the accelerator pumps on the Keihins had to be setwith the decay springs so firm that if you twisted the throttle with the engine off your boots filled up with petrol! It was an absolute shocker . Needless to say the owner, an *expert* reckoned he could make it run better, (Than Barry? I think not!) and it got progressively slower and less rideable until it munted it's gearbox, (The then, second, owner *fixed* this by putting some Nulon 'Wonder Snot' in the box ). Last I heard it was sitting in a chook shed in Goulburn covered in guano with a blown box, (Gosh! What a surprise!!!!). The original owner who won it traded it in on a BMW 'Funduro', quite possibly the most boring motorcycle ever built. I found that somehow apt Basically, what I'm trying to say is its probably not worth it. Give it a lairy paint job instead and buy it some bling! Pete

Nah, I'm still around Tex . The only reason I don't bang on more here is because my knowledge of the newer bikes is strictly limited. It's not that I don't *want* to know more, simply that in my neck of the woods they are as rare as hens' teeth so I don't get the opportunity to find stuff out! As For the windage trays? Well, if Paul says that the Moto Spezial sump will fit then the plate I'm doing to do for the Cali bikes with a Harpers 'Outsider' should fit OK. That is currntly on the back-burner though as I've come back to a shitload of work and hassle that I have to get cleared up and then I have to make a final decision about whether I keep the doors open or shut up shop and go back to just working on my own and mates' bikes. Running a one-man motorbike business is fairly joyless and to be honest I'm beginning to think I don't need the hassle. If I got more help, interest or info from the importer and could actually find something about the current company work practices that I could respect things would be different but........... Pete

I don't think the Moto Spezial V sump will work as a direct bolt-on with the 'Broad Sump' models. The internal plumbing and the drillings will, I think, preclude it but I may be wrong. As for a windage tray? If anyone wants to loan me their V11 I'll design one, if possible without too much effort. Pete

The V11's have a straight cut box so it will tend to whine but your point about water ingress is valid. As Tex says find out if your bike is subject to the recall although whining isn't one of the usual symptoms of the box going tits-up as it's a dog problem rather than a pinion tooth problem. Wish I could be of more help but since i'm persona non grata with the importer i can't get any info out of them, (Even if they had any??? ). Pete

I'm currently currying up thetools I think I need for the six speed overhaul from Mario, who will probably get them quicker and cheaper that me trying to get them from Mr. "How did you get this telephone number???" The supposed tech advisor at the local importer. (Note. I don't know the bloke, but if someone *has* got your phone number and you are supposed to be the 'Big Ears' on what the @#!#$# is happening that wouldn't be my first response to an enquiry ) Why would I want to get some special tools for a job I don't have to do on a bike the importer won't give me parts for???? #@$&@#@ if I know really???? Interest? Love of the marque? Don't ask me, I'm obviously mad. As for warranty? Any qualified mechanic can do the work in NSW and not invalidate your warranty. The problem is that the factory/importer won't pay them or supply them with parts to do the job. Since it's a warranty job so they control the (Dubious.) parts supply you are, I'm afraid, stuck with Gecko or whoever the mob are in Shitney. All I can say is that the first person to bring me their six speed box *after* it has been done by whoever will get a free strip and inspect and the only thing you pay is for any bits that have been bolloxed by the *experts*. Has to be *loose* though, I can't be #@$&@#@ taking the thing in and out for free, s,not a big job but time *is* $$$$$ Pete.

That was the inner race off the nose needle roller Interesting that they seem to of deemed it necessary to add some sort of retainer for the outer race. The inner race on the one I had apart was fine, all I noticed was that the needles were loose in their cage. Yes, there was some radial movement but this is almost always going to be the case with needle rollers and i suspected it would of been diminished with heat. Now? I dunno. It's one of those bloody things that only time will tell I suppose. Thanks Paul. Pete

Unlike the earlier Tonti/1100 Sport type boxes the outer crownwheel support bearing is a.) caged within the outer race so you can't pluck the needles and cage out before tackling the race and b.) seems to be installed pretty bloody tight in the case itself. Both of these things will make it a right, royal, pain to remove without damaging it and I'd reckon it would cost a motza and be difficult to get from your average bearing factor so yoyu don't want to hurt it getting it out. There *is* a substantial washer/spacer ring outboard of bearing and seal and also a metal ring underneath the bearing. On earlier boxes you could use a bearing puller on this ring and brace it against a blocker on the spacer in the box. It may still be possible to do this but I'd be careful. Removing the pinion and it's bearing and baking the thing in the oven for a coupe of hours would probably get the bearing to drop out but I'd be very careful and the seal will probably melt and be a bastard to get out after this, then there is also the effect it might have on the paint. If you can lay your hands on the correct expanding, blind bearing puller, this would probably be best but of course it's the expensive option. I'd be tempted to try a bearing puller under the *ring* beneath the bearing and brace it against something resting on the washer/spacer. add a bit of heat to the case with a butane torch and apply pressure carefully. Not having had to do it yet I can't give a definitive answer, sorry. Pete

Paul, by axial play in the output shaft I take it you mean play in the line of the axis? ie, the shaft goes in and out of the box as if it is moving in the bearing? If so then the bloke whose bevelbox I did this week says his does it too! So it may be quite *normal*. seems a bit odd to me though. If you take it to bits can you tell us what you find. thanks. Pete

Alas, no. Don't get me wrong, I love the spineys and really think the V11 is a fun bike. I just don't need one myself. I love my older bikes, thassall. I'm more than happy to keep working on and learning about the new ones. As you may of noticed I have a bit of a bee in my bonnet about Perhaps it's because I'm a mad, one eyed troglodyte. Perhaps also it is because I really like their engineering, even though they do get it wrong from time to time and the fact that they are a company with an enormaous and illustrious history. That *is* important to me, as is the fact that even with FI they are still essentially maintainable by the home mechanic with a few Craftsman screwdrivers and wonky spanners, OK and a '@#$$#! Smith' multimeter nowadays too . Even if I won the Lotto I think it highly unlikely I'd buy any *new* motorbike. Now, a 125 or 175 Mondial from the '50's, or a complete collection of early flat singles? Now yer talkin' But my *old* ones do everything I need, reliably and without fuss. I just don't need a new one. Pete

Whoops! Scrub that. I just realized you said *Gearbox* . As I said, I haven't had a chance to get in one of these yet but talking to Mario yesterday he says they come apart really easily, although you *do* need the peg spanners for the horrid nuts, (I've ordered a set.) and getting the cush drive out of the centre plate can be a bit of a pig. Looking at the pic of the *Special Tool* in the book though I reckon you can do it with a press and a bit of cut pipe just like the earlier ones. It's just you'll have the plate underneath the tool till you get the collets out. I haven't looked real close at the book yet though so do't take that as Gospel. pete

Axial play on the spindle? Well that would have to be related to either the needle roller in the main case, which as I saw it was stupidly designed with an drilling in it to allow the grease out and dirt and water in! or the *inboard* bearing which is a 2RS type that sits, (Searches memory!!!!) in the centre of the crownwheel carrier just inboard of the splines. The needle roller is easy to check as it just requires the washer outboard of it to be removed, then you can pluck out the needle race from inside the needles and examine the whole sorry lot. The 2RS bearing will require the removal of the crownewheel carrier for decent inspection but as I said this is a breeze with the new box as the carrier is sealed with an O-ring, (No hard to reove gaskets any more!) and can be easily pried off witha pair of screwdrivers, It takes all of about five minutes to undo the eight bolts and pry it off after which the bearing can be easily turned and checked for wear because the spacer between it and the back of the box will no longer be pressing against it. While the poxy needle roller will probably require a blind bearing puller to remove the 2RS bearing is a simple push fit and should be easy to press out and in. It also looks like a bog-ordinary standard size bearing, although I didn't check it's numbers. Chances are a new one will cost pennies from a bearing factor. The Needle roller, because it is *sealed* at each end is probably a different matter. The thing is Paul there is NOTHING in there to be scared of. The only thing that might frghten you off is if you don't feel confient about actually shimming the mesh between the crownwheel and pinion. But since, if the gears are OK, you don't have to touch the shims it is a really simple, *Take apart, put back together* number. The most troublesome thing was getting the pinion carrier bearing thingy back in the box, to examine play in the wheel spindle bearings you don't have to touch the pinion at all! Although if yours id a bit floppy making a tool and tightening the castelated collar will probably improve things a lot. People are scared of bevelboxes. I think this is a hangover from the days when everyone had a Haynes manual for their old Tontis and it said that doing *anything* to the bevelbox would result in the sky falling, plagues of frogs and your underpants would burst into flames. Absolute crap of course, but the fear still remains. Attack it with confidence mate! It isn't hard and the problem will be obvious. The box only has 44 pieces, (I just counted them in the book! ) and lots of them are bolts, washers, o-rings, seals and parts of the breather system!!!! There are only about 12 *important* bits!!!!! How hard can it be????? Pete

Whether it's a *good* thing or a *bad* thing only time will tell. Looking at it from my point of view as a mechanic it is a bit more tiresome as it is harder to get apart and reassemble and requires a whole load of new shims to set up right. The peculiar pinion bearing seems to be a typical Guzi solution to a simple problem, but you get that. I'm still waiting for some kind of feedback from an engineer about whether a less coarse helical cut on the gears will make for mesh being less critical but a longer, deeper tooth wold seem to indicate that to me. As it stands, as a mechanic, it looks like a happy thing, if one that is a bit more difficult to work on, But like most things if you have the correct tools and/or a bit of imagination it isn't rocket science. We leave that up to the real idiots. Pete

Colin the Chook had a bit of trouble setting up the dividing head to make the tool but other than that it was all his own work. Never underestimate a rubber chicken! Pete Here's the rest (Jaap) ----------------- OK, now to the much more interesting stuff! First thing this morning Colin made up a bridge puller using the main seal installation tool, a couple of V blocks, a length of 8x1.25 threaded rod a couple of washers and a nut. While the bearing/pinion assembly was in there tight it wasn't *that* tight but I wouldn't be game to try and pry it out from the inside. Once it was out it was possible to look down the input orifice and have a squizz at the needle roller that supports the nose of the pinion. Be warned! Given half a chance these needles will slip out of their cages! Whether this is a result of the lateral loadings being excessive due to the pinion being able to cant over sideways or simply that they are loose in the cage I can't say, but obviously be careful! immediately I noticed on trying to escape pushed it back into it's slot and clagged the whole lot in with a smear of good, thick, grease! OK, so now on to the real crux of the matter. My initial thoughts on this oh-so expensive *special* bearing were that it would probably consist of a tapered roller thrust bearing and a ball element rotational load bearing. Well I was quite wrong! Without taking the pinion out, which I didn't want to do as if I did I'd almost certainly have to replace the seal and possibly the *very Expensive* bearing, It is hard to see that under the large and clearly visible ballrace there is in fact a caged roller bearing. It would seem that these are not a tapered roller but just a standard, tubular, needle roller. These are what take the lateral and rotational loads, the end thrust is taken by by the big ball race. The interesting thing is that the ball race has a split outer race, In the first pic you can see the rollers underneath the balls, outboard of the balls is the seal which fits inside the castellated retaining collar. The collar has an o-ring on the outside to seal the collar in the box and the seal fits tightly inside the collar and bears on the pinion shaft beneath the retaining nut. This ensures there is nowhere for the oil to escape from the box. In the second pic you can see the outer part of the split race which fits over the balls but beneath the retaining collar. As the collar is tightened down it clamps the two parts of the outer race together and because it is going to be ground to a super-critical fit to ensure the correct bearing clearance when the castellated collar is tightened down the two halves of the race will mate ensuring that the correct amount of end float, and therefore lateral play in the pinion, will be available to ensure not only adequate clearance for lubrication of the bearing but also correct clearance to allow only minimal run out of the shaft of the pinion while under load. OK, so why is there excessive run-out and lateral play in so many V11 boxes? Well, Colin's theory, (And who am I to disagree?) is that when the boxes are assembled they are all put together and torqued down to the *correct* specs. The problem stems from the fact that in service bearing races tend to *settle* into their registers. I know from putting this unit back together that the bearing is a tight fit, you can't press it in really easily due to there not really being any flat surface you can use as the base to press against. In the end I put the pinion/bearing unit in the deep freeze for an hour or two and warmed the case with a butane torch, (Not too hot! I didn't want to damage the inner crownwheel seal! Or damage the paint.) Then by quick sleight of hand I was able to drop the bearing into the housing and get it in deep enough that the inner race of the *nose* bearing engaged with it's needle race after which I was able to use a hide mallet to tap it down to it's register. I wouldn't use a hammer here, you'd damage the balls! Once it was back in I lubed the o-ring on the castellated collar, copiously, with rubber grease. Dropped the separate part of the split-race onto place and tightened down the castellated collar. As you do this you effectively clamp the two parts of the race together. No doubt there is a *specified torque* but I just tightened it up until it wouldn't tighten any more by hand. I wouldn't worry too much about the torque, although I'll look it up tonight, It's bound to be pretty high as you are using a fine pitched thread to both clamp he two halves of a bearing race together AND seat the entire assembled double-bearing onto it's register in the box. It's a typical and very 'Guzzi' solution to a problem. The end result was that as I tightened it down, not surprisingly, the end float disappeared! By the time I'd got it to 'Cut washers off it' tight with the two stubby handles of my home made tool the lateral play had been reduced to no more than the suitable backlash in a set of bevels, ie0.1 to 0.15ish mm. Warm it all up a bit and I reckon it will be tickety-boo and honky dory! The bottom line, (Or perch, as Colin would say.) is probably that if your pinion has excessive run-out simply remove the box, get a castellated nut tightening tool, (Reno, a local retired toolmaker in Bunged-end made mine for $60AU!) and try tightening it down a bit and seeing if that removes the end float. It is a whopping great bearing so running out of it's correct clearance probably won't do it any harm for a while but even so it's far better for it to be *right* and if you can do that without stripping the box like I did? Bonus!!!!!!! One final point. The oh-so expensive bearing? While I didn't take it off and accurately measure the balls, rollers or overall dimensions I really can't see any real reason why it has to be this hideously complex design. It may well be that the pinion shaft size or whatever is something really odd but when I get one in where the bearings *are* stuffed or the CW&P are rooted I think I'll be taking a trip down to the bearing shop and seeing if I can find a pair of bearings, one a needle roller and the other a bloody great ball-race, that when used together have the same overall dimensions as the Oh-so expensive factory bearing. If some clever engineer type can come up with a reason why this *wouldn't* be a suitable solution could they please tell me? As far as I can make out though if you could get bearings with suitable clearances and load bearing capacity that will fit it could save an awful lot of money. And let's face it, that's the 'Guzzi Way'!!!!!!!!! Cheers, Colin the Chook!

Did the rest of the text not come through? If so I can re-send it, without the pics? Pete

Thanks guys, I could probably easily make something up myself, in fact in the interests of getting it apart I probably will, the main problem for me right now is time. I'm snowed under with work at the moment and really don't want to spend a couple of hours farting about making up a tool when I can simply buy it and write the money off as a business expense and get the taxman to pay for it! Anyway, I'll take some pics and write a bit of a blurb today about what you can examine without taking the pinion out! Pete --------------------------- Here are the pics and text Pete has sent me (Jaap) This is the first time Colin and I have had the opportunity to have a dig into a bevelbox off one of the *new* six speed bikes. There is a fair bit of scratching around to be done to discover how it works and how it comes apart! Colin was crowing with excitement! The first thing discovered when Colin pecked out the washer on the right hand side of the box was that there is a needle roller bearing in there. Obviously this is to enable the box to move in relation to the spindle as the suspension rises and falls. The inner race of this bearing also acts as a spacer, one of many, in the rear wheel, bevelbox, swingarm and spindle assembly. As can bee seen from this picture there was evidence of rust and water ingress to this bearing which at first seemed odd as it is *sealed* at each end by rubber seals outboard of the bearing cage that should theoretically prevent the ingress of water or egress of grease by sealing against the inner race. Closer examination of the inner race though showed that it has a drilling in it! Why you would put a drilling in this race God only knows! There isn't going to be any grease going into that hole unless some is supposed to get scraped into it off a desperately over-greased wheel spindle. The only thing likely to get into it is going to be water, and that's exactly what it appears has been happening! Colin reckons it's got whiskers on it!!!!! After prying off the crownwheel cover and crownwheel, (Which, incidentally, is a very snug fit in the carrier bearing. So snug that Colin left it well alone.) The pinion was exposed, as can be seen, despite the wibbly-wobbly pinion that provoked this tear-down the teeth are in perfect condition, odd. Looking at the outer crownwheel support bearing it can be seen that this is of a new design. The cage and needles no longer come out separately which will make it a right bastard to swap the outer oil seal, also visible in this pic: Outboard of this there is another large spacer/washer and behind this the outer needle roller can be glimpsed. Now, using his locally produced tool, (than you Reno!) Colin undid the castellated bearing retainer nut for the pinion. This is not torqued up particularly tightly, being a very fine pitched thread it doesn't have to be. In a crisis you could probably undo it with a pin punch or rapid blows of the beak Colin now turns his attention to the crownwheel and it's shim, also visible to the left of the shim in this picture is the intermediate spacer from the centre of the crownwheel, Note also the O-ring in it's groove of the crownwheel carrier, a much nicer solution than the old paper gaskets! In the next picture, Colin indicates the 'Direction Hole' (with is 'Parson's Nose'.) on the new V11 crownwheel shims. This is there to aid the positioning of the shim, they holes in the flange that the bolts go through into the bevelbox housing are no longer symmetrical. This extra hole has to be aligned with the front of the box where the pinion goes in, then all the other holes line up. Tomorrow Colin will make a bridge puller and extract the naughty, wibbly-wobbly bearing and give it a good clucking at! Until them 'Bye and 'Cock-a-Dooldle-Doo!'

Shim-stock! Wonderful stuff. Very thin sheet steel, often sold as 'Shim in a Can', (I kid you not!). Cut to required size, coat in gorilla snot, wrap around offending pipe, slip *bigger* pipe over, clamp up tight, wipe/scrape off excess gorilla snot, ride off into sunset!!!! I've done this before! You guessed Pete

OK, Jaap has kindly offered to post up some pics for me. Gimme a day or so and I should be able to cobble something together. Note this is not going to be a *definitive* examination of the box but there are a whole load of things that the factory manual doesn't tell you Oh, and if anyone here speaks Italian well could they perhaps contact Agostini's or Valpolinni's or someone and see if they can secure a price for the special tool for undoing the pinion bearing retaining nut? I'm ging to need one and when I spoke to the technical advisor at our importer today he seemed more concerned that I had managed to get his phone number than the fact I wanted to solve a problem on the product they are supposed to be promoting . My chances of being able to *do the right thing* and buy locally seem to be 'Buckley's and None' as we say over here. Pete

OK, so I've got one of these apart on the bench at the moment and I've found a couple of things that may be of interest to owners, things that aren't covered in the manual. I have a fairly good little digital camera and can take some pics and add a little shcpei with a few of my observations if people would like but I'm not clever enough to be able to post this sort of thing up on any website. If I were to do this would any of you clever computer literate people like to stick it up somewhere for general observation and comment? If no one is bothered? No problem. But I thought I'd offer. Pete

OK, so I've got my first V11 bevelbox in. The owner bought it in because he was concerned with play in the pinion. This is something I've noted before on some V11's and I just wanted to pick the more experienced folks brains. Drained the oil out and then grab the pinion. When you move it latterally there is a good 15-20 thou, (Nearly 1/2 a mm) of sideways play in the bearings. There is also a smaller amount of fore and aft end float. I couldn't believe this is right. I would of thought that that much latteral play would upset the point of contact so severely that it would destroy the bevels quick-smart? Not having, and not being able to get from the importer, the required castellated spanner for the pinion retaining nut I decided that the safest bet would be to pull off the crownwheel cover, a dead simple job on the new boxes as you can get a pair of screwdrivers under the plate and gently pry it off, much easier than the earlier boxes with their recessed plate! Hooray! Guzzi get something right for a change!!!! The box flange is also now sealed with an O-ring! No more poxy paper gaskets!!!! . Once the flange was off and the crownwheel and box, with pinion still installed, were given a good tub in the parts washer I was able to examine the gears and, surprise,surprise, they were perfect. I was expecting at least evidence of poor mating or damage to the case hardening but they are both, crownwheel and pinion, in superb condition. OK, so the new boxes use a very different system to the old ones. The nose of the pinion is supported in a bearing, this appears to be a needle roller. The splined end is supported in a *special* bearing that I believe is a combined tapered roller and ball race item, presumably the ball race to take lateral and rotational loads, the tapered oller to take the thrust imparted by the helical gears trying to throw themselves apart. There is no means of pre-loading this bearing so one would imagine that the internal tollerances in it would have to be super-critical to avoid the balls being over-taxed with side thrust. What I'd like to know is a.) Is this amount of latteral play normal? b.) Is the theory that the end thrust on the pinion will ensure that the tapered roller will seat and this is what will maintain alignment of the crownwheel and pinion under load? c.) Is this, to me dangerously large amount of latteral play and end float simply a result of the components being cold? Is the play taken up by expansion as the box moves towards standard operating temperatures? Obviously everything is working OK because there is no discernable damage to the gears and the bearings all feel fine with no notchiness or roughness but it all seems seriously shonky to me. I'm NOT and engineer, I'm a mechanic. There may be perfectly good engineering reasons for using this system but I have to admit it all looks a bit cock-arsed to me and I'm *really* not happy about the latteral play in the pinion. Thanks. Pete

Good point Tex. What use is a clutch cable on a bike with a hydraulic clutch Pete. (Who has an automatic with a clutch???? There's a dumb idea!)

(Gurgle! Froth!!!!) You want a list of what??? For What?????? A 2,000 mile road trip???? Pfffft! Good God man! what the hell is wrong with you???? You have a virtually BRAND NEW motorbike and you plan to take it for a canter around the block and want to know what you need to take???? Look you nutcase, I'm about to come on a 'See how many of the natives I can offend in six weeks' tour of the USA, (Parts of it at least.) and I'm picking up a shitty old V1000 Convert of completely unknown provenance from a shop in Detroit. This machine is nearly 25 years old and has probably spent most of it's life in a chicken coop in Arkansas being used as a guano repository. Do I care? be-f@cked do I care. It's a Guzzi, anything that can go wrong can be fixed with a couple of feet of bailing twine and a FB hammer, don't kid yerself, the new ones are exactly the same, they just don't suffer from the guano problem. Pack what you'd usually take for a weekend ride, (2,000 miles sounds like a weekend ride to me, 3 days or so??) and take a credit card in case something goes tits-up but that's unlikely as long as you check the bike over before you leave, (Heavens, the gearbox has even got a silly little poofterish window to check the level now, how hard is that?) then put petrol in it and ride it till it stops. Good God, you V11 owners are sounding almost as soft as bloody Ducatisti, or worse still BMW owners, (Oh! Heavens! My GPS says I'm more than 20Km from a dealer! We'll have to turn back!!! ) Start engine, engage gear/s, flog the clacker off it, come home, repeat as often as necessary until you understand!!!!!! Pete

In my beloved State, (NSW) they are actually FAILING people on car driving tests if they slow down using the engine rather than the brakes, even if they touch the brakes to indicate to following traffic they are slowing. These complete fuckwits who have instituted this program say that the safest way to stop is to brake in a high gear, (4th/5th) until such point that the engine begins to lug at which point the clutch should be depressed and a full halt achieved by brakes alone. Only when the machine is either stationary or at it's lowest possible speed should a lower gear be selected!!!!!!!! I'm sorry but this is dangerous cretinism of the highest order. What happens if the driver suddenly needs to accelerate and they are in a high gear? What happens to the suspension and transmission loadings when traveling in 'Angel Gear'? It is trully a frightening example of unskilled and non understanding people being allowed to make the rules. As for motorbikes? The differences between a light, chain driven, repli-racer with a high F/R bias and a machine like a Guzzi are many and manifest. trying to ride a Guzzi like an RGV is not only stupid, its fruitless too. I still maintain that the best way to get a Guzzi, any Guzzi, round a corner fast is to hit the picks as late as you can and use a combination of rapid downchanges with engine braking, missing some gears if neccessary, to get all the slowing down done BEFORE you tip it in. Make sure you're in the correct gear for your entry speed and then wind it on and use the torque to push you out of the corner. I can't imagine that any correctly set up V11 that hasn't been modified or extensively lightened would be able to break traction in the dry with *most* riders on board unless they are super-keen or the bike is set up wrong. Steering with the back just isn't an issue, lets face it it isn't for most people on the road. I know that I have to get really stupid to break traction with my old hot-rod and it runs a skinny 120 crossply on the back, and , no, I don't pretend to steer it with the rear wheel. Shit myself when it lets go? Yes! Steer? No! Like it or not a Guzzi is an old fashioned motorbike in just about every way, including the way they steer and handle. To me that is a bonus. I think a repliracer or overpowered pig is a stupid thing to try and take on the road. If you want to go racing go to a frigging race track. Racing has no place on the public road. That isn't to say fast riding doesn't have a place, my licence will attest to my flaunting of the stupid road laws, but racing is a recipe for disaster! While not usning engine braking *may* have merit is some situations,most particularly on a racetrack, removing the drive forces from the handling and roadholding eqation is an unmitigated disaster, especially with a comparatively heavy, rear wheel drive, single track vehicle! You can play biggus-dickus, play race/pysicist till you're blue in the tits but I'm telling you you'll get round corners quicker and have better overall control of your vehicle if you keep the engine connected with the back wheel as much as possible, be it under drive or on the overun. Pete