pete roper

My feelings too. When there is the correct amount of oil in the motor and the crank etc. isn't thrashing around then the oil level should be about at the level of the bottom of the block. When everything is whizzing around ten to the dozen there will be oil in suspension and clinging to other surfaces within the motor and draining down from the heads etc. but I would still expect that the level of the oil in the sump would be fairly close to the bottom of the block especially as some of it's *volume* will be air as it will become aerated. The thing is that it isn't really so much the fact that you have to completely prevent the oil from moving rearwards, you simply have to slow it down! The times when the pick-up exposure will be occuring are almost certainly in the lower gears when you're accelerating hard. In the higher gears the forces exerted simply aren't as great, (You know that you're accelerating harder in 1sts and 2nd than you are in 5th and 5th? Yes?) so the likelyhood of exposure of the pick-up is also less. My guess is that if you simply cover the surface of the oil with a plate, even one with drain slots in, it will act as a sufficient deterent to the oil sloshing back in those vital seconds where you're accelerating HARD in the first two or three gears. In the lower gears you are not only accelerating harder but, because of the lower ratio the revs will build faster so you'll actually spend less time in the lower gears which in turn means that the time that the baffle plate has to do it's job is also les than it would be if you were accelerating at the same rate in a higher gear, geddit? It may seem a bit 'Brain-Hurty' but its not really difficult. Ideally some sorts of vertical baffles and/or guides to ensure that the oil is kept by the pick-up would be best but IMHO a solution can probably be found with the installation of a simple plate, (Which in itself will help with de-aeration of the oil, another good thing.) and being a great believer in the 'KISS' principle it's what I would suggest is needed rather than a horribly complex and heavier construction involving various 'Curtains' hangng from the plate into the sump. YOMV (Shrug.) Oh, and DeBen. There is no reason why you should have to sell your soul for a simple plate type solution. The plates I got cut for earlier Tonti's which are no more or less complex than a simple plate to suit a V11 are cut out of 2mm stainless steel, (Chosen because I have seen plenty of thinner plates made of aluminium fracture.) and shipped to the USA I think they ended up costing something like $95US which is scarcely NASA budget stuff and I was making a profit on that, not a huge one, but adequate to make it worth my while. Pete

If Greg doesn't have the time, inclination or contacts to do a run I'd be more than happy to get my local mob to do a run of them if he can come up with a template. The most important thing I think is to have some sort of *cover* ie, the plate, over the surface of the oil in the sump. There obviously have to be holes for bits like the filter/thermostat housing to poke through and I would suggest that these, pretty much alone, will be adequate for drain back to the sump. Perhaps a couple of slots either ide of the plate as well to allow oil running down the crankcase walls to get to the sump easily. The main thing would be to have not much in the ay of holes or slots at the back of the sump. That way under hard acceleration the oil won't be trying to slop back and away from the pick-up. Top stuff Greg. ow we are SURE the problem is there? Lets deal with it once and for all. Obviously I was wrong about the sensitivity of the guage sender mechanism. For that I apologise. Pete

Now yer talking! D'you reckon I could get some 'S' rated ones really cheap? Or better still unrated ones like wheelbarrow tyres! You can't put a price on quality Pete

Thanks everyone. This really does help. Yes, tyres are totally subjective but I'm realistic enough to know that absolute #1, 100% *sport* rubber is wasted on 95% of the people who buy it and it would be infinitely more wasted on me! I have NEVER, prior to my 'Vert, bought dedicated *touring* rubber for anything I've owned. Admittedly the *fattest* tyre I've fitted to a bike of my own up to now is a 120/90 but I was able to pill those up OK with the new compounds, even in a shi*ty old crossply. My feeling is I'll be perfectly OK, and will never reach the limits of a 'Sports/Touring' type tyre. Remember that where I live it hardly ever rains, Sometimes I go out in the rain just to keep in practice!!! Honest! Look at your maps if you don't believe me. It never rains here! In Winter it is bloody cold, but by mid-day it's in the teens centigrade and the road surface in the sun will be warm enough. In summer it gets absurdly hot! I was thinking this afternoon that if it had been summer I could probably of trowelled the Rennsport rear in an afternoon without trying at all!!!! OK, I'll go and make a pest of myself at Joe's next week with my loose wheel. Any advice on BAD combinations to avoid with the still comparatively un-worn front? As I said I do a lot of boring stuff with not a lot of braking so fronts *do* last longer, although I've got it all the way to the edge too Pete

Oh thou bitter, bitter cynic? How could you posibly imagine that I would get even the teensy-weensy bit upset about being called a Yank Despite what our prime minister is trying to achieve we aren't *yet* the 55th state of the USA. Pete

slightly younger farts OK, so 've got this 'ere Greaso. I've managed to shag the rear tyre in 3500Km and within the next 500 or so will be looking for a replacement. The Rennsports it came with are great in terms of grip and feel but, lets be honest, I'm a fat old git who doesn't need supersport compounds and anyway, Jude'll kill me if I have to fork out$280-ish for a new rear every 4,000km! So, I went into the local tyre emporium today, (I don't do tyres as a rule, bugger all money in 'em and the shops in Canberra have lots of round black things on the shelf.) Looking at slightly less *sporty* compounds I seem to have found; Dunlop 'Sportsmax' *Qualifier* Avon Viper AV60 Mitch. Pilot Road. Metz. Sportec M1 Bridgestone BT 20R Now, the Guzzi isn't very powerfull. It is though, heavy, especially with a great lard-bucket like me on it. I don't ride particularly hard but a lot of what I do is fairly mundane 2-lane work, (The Griso is a work hack, I use it to go into Canberra to do the 'Bearings and Bullsh!t' run for Graham and myself at least a couple of times a week.) but I do like to have a bit of fun when i think I can get away with it. This being the case I don't want something made of Bakelite but neither do I want something that I can hang out of the way just by pressing it on the ceiling and watching it stick! I'm quite willing to swap ultimate grip, (Which I'd hardly ever use because I ride like Gumby!) for a bit more life but I don't want a tyre that will skate around like a landed fish unless it's really hot. The Greasio is my first fat tyred bike so I'm basically new to this. Given the similar power outputs and weights of the 'Pig' and a V11 it would seem sensible to ask you lot what to try and what to avoid. I know that tyres, (like oil ), are a very personal thing but perhaps I can be steered away from anything really awful that just doesn't work with a fat-arse air-cooled twin. Pete

Shouldn't I get a quiz point or a bodge point or something? Pete

Sorry, misunderstanding. I wasn't suggesting you were knocking it. I just remember when I was your age and I wanted the fastest, leanest and *best* with little or no understanding. Just take it as the ramblings of a sad old fart who used to ride Guzzis when they were thought of as pretty hot sh!t Good on ya boy, you go for it Pete

Mate, while I can't be sure what it is Martin's moped looks very like the horrid Motobecane one I had as my first legal road-going bike in 1973. Don't knock it, I know how frustrating it can seem but we all had to start somewhere. At least your Dad likes bikes, my old man used to go appoplectic every time he SAW a motorbike, never mind me riding one. I had to store my repulsive old BSA A10 with a Watsonian DA chair on it at a mates place and never told my folks I owned it! I lived in terror of my old man, (Who was a doctor!) seeing me riding it around, or more likely working on it when it broke down at the side of the road, as it did with tedious regularity! while he was out on his 'rounds'(These were the days when doctors still actually made house calls!) Don't knock the Storny! They are a fun little bike and have a lot more character than the ubiquitous CG 125 Honda that everybody and their dog seems to have learnt to ride on in the UK. I remember Kev saying a while back that the poor old CG has finally been put out to grass. So what do learners in the UK ride nowadays???? Pete

I've been racking my tiny peanut brain about this and I have a feeling that the guage probably won't be sensitive enough react quickly to the momentary loss of pressure. I could be barking up completely the wrong tree here but....... The actual guage is electronic. It relies on current coming from the sender that is plumbed into the oil gallery. This is provided by a switched circuit so when you turn off the ignition it will immediately drop to zero. Yup? That's all fine and dandy but what about the signal from the sender? I haven't taken one apart but looking at it and how it appears to be made it would seem to me that the most likely scenario is that there is some sort of spring loaded plunger in there which is pushed up by oil pressure and operates some sort of rheostat as it does so, a bit like a TPS but it's moveent will be *vertical* rather than *lateral*. So essentially it is much the same as the original pressure switch only it uses a variable resistor rather than a simple contact. If this is the case, seeing as we are tending to see only momentary loss of pressure, (the dreaded flickering oil light issue.) I just wonder if the reaction time of the guage is going to be any better than the poxy original switch? I'd hazard a guess it might actually be even slower as whatever the contact system of the rheostat it is invariably going to impart a frictional impediment of some sort to the movement of the contact and I don't know whether it would be damped in some way or not? Look, it may not work that way at all but it certainly seems the simplest, (read cheapest!) and most obvious way for such a guage/sender unit to be produced and most guages are installed to detect constant pressure and gradual loss rather than sudden failure. That being the case I have my doubts about whather the guage will actually work as a diagnostic tool for identifying cavitation or pick-up exposure. Wotcher fink? Greg knows me well enough to know I'm not going to deliberately say something just to be obtuse. I'm certainly not saying fitting a guage is without merit. It's just that I'm not sure that in this situation it's going to be able to give us the information we want for a cast-iron answer. Pete

You will find that on one end of the crank or another, (Probably the left.) there is a flywheel magneto. If you look through the slots on the rotor you'll find a set of really corroded and manky looking points. By turning the rotor with your hand, (Take the plug out dummy!) you'll see that there is a point at which they are supposed to open, being pushed by the cam incorporated in the centre of the rotor. Because Guiseppe never bothered putting any grease on the heel of the points it long ago wore down to the point where the points no longer open. Simply loosen them and open 'em up a bit so that they do open. them, take a multi-meter st to 'Ohms' and connect it to the points feed wire from the coil and play with the dwell until the points are opening at about the right place as indicated by the marks on the rotor's outside. Add a dob of grease to the heel of the points and kick it in the guts. Chances are the wee bugger will run. Do of course give it an oil change and set the tappets before you decide to play boy-racer . If you're anything like my size get used to people pointing and laughing as you'll look like a circus bear riding a tricycle Pete

Nah! That's a poofters bike! If you want to go off road you'd use a Villiers (NOT!) Pete

Mike? thou art a philistine of the first water Pete

WHat used to kill plugs was lead-foul from the Pb in the fuel. As long as the engine is tuned right very frequent plug changes should be a thing of the past. Having said that plugs are so cheap who cares? I'll probably toss a new set in the Griso at 20,000Km or so. On the 'Vert I wait until it starts running rough, then it gets a new pair, or maybe a secon hand pair I've taken out of a customer's bike Pete

IMHO the Cali series has actually got to look worse as time went by. The T3 Cali was actually quite a looker if you like that kind of thing. The CAli II is not only more comfortable but is also OK-ish in terms of looks to my eyes at least and still maintains the old style 'separate' tank and sidecovers look. It was after this that things started to go seriously pear shaped in my view. The CALI III and all the sunsequent models with the bulbous, teardrop tank just don't work for me, I think they're hideous. I haven't seen a 'Vintage' in the metal yet but they look like an improvement in the pics. Having said that though the later Calis are very popular in the USA so they appeal to some people. Dan Kalal has answered and offered his opinions and advice over on WG, since he's covered about a zillion Km on his he's the man to know about possible problems, (Notably the clutch wear problems.) but probably not resale value!!! Pete

Yes, it does. the Triumph guides, even more so than most pommy twins are much shorter than Guzzi guides in relation to the valve stem length. This has several unfortunate side effects. Firstly the valve is less fully supported so it will tend to thrash about a fair bit which will promote wear. Secondly the long, exposed, stem between the head of the valve and the guide means that they are lousy at dumping heat so the valves generally run hotter, (The shortness of the guide exacerbates this too.) so once again wear is greater. Thirdly the way the oil gets flung off the rockers in a Trumpy means that more of it is likely to end up arond the top of the truncated guides meaning that it's more likely to get dragged down the guide and create smoke. Guzzi guides sit quite well proud of the surface of the head and the head itself slopes at an angle of 45 degrees so oil runs off and drains quickly and effectively rather than trying to pool near the guide. Oil is also pumped out of either end of the rockers and fed around by splash but the majority of it will stick to the rocker carriers by surface tension and only a minority of it will probably get flung around. Certainly not an awful lot seems to reach the tips of the rockers and valves and this can be seen by the prominent wear marks on most Guzzi valve tips and grooves worn in the valve ends of rockers. Consequently even with valve guides that are completely 'Donald Ducked' Guzzi will rarely smoke! If you do detect anything it will usually be when the throttle is whacked open after decelerating on the over-run. Then you may well get a small puff of smoke but constant smoking, (And even this is usually only noticed at idle at a standstill!) is usually only apparent if there is something seriously wrong with a piston like broken up ring-lands or smashed rings, or the oil control ring is so worn you can drive a Mack truck through the end gap! As for your Scura I probably have seen it. There was a young fellow down here who bought one and then very early in the piece had a get-off somewhere near the lake in Canberra. He was adamant that there was something seriously amiss with the suspension but when I rode it I honestly couldn't find anything too horribly scary with it but I think he thought I was and idiot because I couldn't wave a magic wand and make it handle like an RGV, (well, he was right about the idiot part! ) Is that the one? Did it come with a spare, repaired, tailpiece? If so it's probably the same bike. anyway, if you're in the area drop in. Best to phone first as I'm not alays at the shop. Pete

Two things, as an ex-Triumph owner myself I can tell you that the relationship between the valve stem length, the guide length, the angle of the valves and the positioning of the oil feeds and the delivery patter around the guides is completely different on a Triumph twin and a Guzzi. Sorry but your experience with the K-lines in the Triumph have absolutely no relevance to the Guzzi but since I've also known them to be used quite successfully in pommy twins I'd have to question their installation and/or the integrity of the guides into which they were installed. As for your 'Head Recon' man? A lot of head shops will only use K-lines on cast iron guides. I have no idea why. I suppose it's just inate conservatism of people who either don't like to or are scared to experiment. He's welcome to his opinion but I'm sorry, it's just plain wrong. Pete

Further indication from a reliable source that it may simply be a bung batch of bearing shells, (Obviously purchased from the same wholesaler do supplies the crap valves and wonky return springs! ). I'd still be pulling out the rods and re-sizing 'em but it would seem the problem is of a fairly simple nature, if irritating and expensive to people who's bikes have gone out of warranty. Bummer. Pete

Well, there y'go. From the horses mouth as it were. If MI made that diagnosis I'm more than happy to go with it. Pete

I dunno. With a factory fitted crank they would just haul the bits off the shelf and assemble 'em, if there was a problem with the shells or the journal being the wrong size it could be a problem. When I do a bottom end though, if the crank is re-ground it's only done AFTER the undersize bearings have been bought, the rods have been re-sized and then the crank is ground to the correct clearance for the assembled rods so it's not a problem. It would also be well nigh impossible to diagnose whether this was teh case after the bearings have failed though as the rods biffing on the crank may well of caused some ovalization of the big-end eyes and who could say whether this was a pre-existing condition or a result of the failure Pete

Just to add to that I can see absolutely no cause to diagnose a dangerously worn guide from a 2 second run on a dyno? I mean most Guzzis rattle a bit and for some reason most of 'em seem to loosen up the RH exhaust tappet earlier than the other three. Why? Heaven only knows! It could simply be the tappet clearance is too big causing it to rattle. Certainly if you're in the middle of a transcontinental move but the bike is still running OK I wouldn't stuff around with it while you're preparing to leave! Once you're out here, (You're heading up to the Sunshine coast hinterland somewhere aren't you?) you can get it looked at and it will probably be cheaper than Europe too, at least the labour cost would be. There are a couple of Guzzi agents in Brisbane, check out the Guzzi website for locations. I don't know what they'd charge but for removing and servicing the heads, including K-lining the valve guides, a three angle cut of the seats, checking the seating pressures and compressibility of the springs etc. you'd probably pay about $800AU to me plus any parts required, (Gaskets, valves if needed, springs if needed, shims if needed etc.) my figures are probably in the ball park as I'd probably say that removing and replacing the heads would be about 4 hours and the actual head work, including the K-lines comes in at about $350. That would probably include GST too. I've got nice low overheads though, if you take it to a big flashy place with lots of bling in the showroom you'd probably have to pay more. I'm not trolling for business, I've got plenty on, just trying to give you some sort of idea of what you'd be likely to be up for if you decided to wait until you got to Oz. I think it HIGHLY unlikely you will suffer a catastrophic failure like a dropped valve. I've seen big valve heads with guides with nearly a mm of slop in them and they still haven't spat the collets and dropped a valve. Yes, it's possible, but I think it very unlikely. Anyone else seen a big-block with a dropped valve of late? No, I thought not! It's extremely rare and usually only occurs on bikes with absurdly high mileages and a poor service history. Pete

Yes, some of them may, and some of them may have worn valve stems, and I wish I had x-ray vision with micrometer accuracy as well! Then I'd be able to make such incredibly rapid diagnoses too! Sorry, but it smells like a poopy rat to me. I'm with Tex Pete

An interupted srolled liner that fits inside the original guide and is then reamed back to standard size. Pete

While I respect what Mike is saying the issue of oil pressure at start up? Well, it isn't an issue. The motor hasn't changed appreciably in thirty years and all Guzzis get pressure up in much, much less time than your average car big end gets oil from cold. I personally agree with Greg's theory that the specification for a 5/40 was linked to the arrival of the hydro motors in the Calis where not only pressure but also VOLUME was an issue as the lifters have to effectively be *flooded* to work properly. It continues to be specified smply 'cos nobody has bothered writing another engine specific handbook! The clearance in a plain bearing is essentially the same regardless of oil viscosity. Certainly you *can* get the bearing to wedge properly using a thicker oil if the clearance is larger than ideal but in real terms it's not something than needs to be taken into account, at least it shouldn't be on any *newish* motor. Sorry, but no matter what was being used, a 5/40 full synth, a 20/50 mineral or even ground up cocker-spaniels with the lumps strained out, there has to be some other physical reason for big end shells to go tits up at such a low mileage. Pete

I really dunno about that Steve? While I have seen some swarf in sumps and the like you have to remember that the actual galleries in a Guzzi, especially the V11's, after the filter are very, very short. In fact on the V11's the main delivery pipes are just that, pipes, not the cast in galleries used on the older motors. Anything *before* the filter would be caught by the filter. Really the only galleries are the ones from the bottom of the block, front and rear, to the main bearings. If there was a great big bit of sh!te in one of those it would stuff one or other of the mains before it got to the big ends. The oiling system on a Guzzi is not only very simple, it's also very short and has comparatively few bearings to supply. Mains, a pair of big ends and the cam bearings. Thats it as far as plain bearings go. Everything else is fed by splash and spray! So why would big ends go? Well either through lack of oil or insufficient pressure or there has to have been a problem with either the rod that holds the bearings or the journal of the crank. Most of us who have experience of such things *know* or have heard of the 'Oil light flicker' on broad sump models. I've explained why this is such a worry in other threads and Greg is now telling us that Moto International is seeing V11's with torched big-ends on a seemingly regular basis. So why V11's? I mean the late model Sport i's, Centauros and Daytona RS's all use the same sump/oil delivery set up. So why V11's? It makes no sense unless there is another reason as well. I do remember Amadeo Castelani of Raceco UK saying that early V11's had horrible connecting rods that were both heavy and stretch prone. Now I *think* that that was all sorted out but there is still the possibility of the rods being wonky. If the big ends are prone to ovalization then this too will torch the big ends quicker than you can say "That's a funny noise!" For that reason, regardless of the condition of the crankpin, (and I've salvaged many nitrided crankpins, including the one on the crank of the current roundfin racer by giving them the 'poor man's linish' with a yard long length of 1200 grain wet'n'dry!) I'd be taking the rods out and checking them for length, ovality, stretching or anything else untoward. Yes, I know it's more work but if you stick in new shells and pay for new, expensive, rod bolts it would be a pain if the whole sorry business occurs again within a similar period of time. Really, the only truly *right* option is to get the donk out and strip it. Unless of course there is some simple explanation like a loose oil pick-up, loose thermostat/oil filter housing, loose feed pipe, loose filter or PR valve all of which can be inspected simply by removing the sump. Without actually taking the thing to bits myself and being able to make a hands on diagnosis this is all really pissing in the wind but I think we can take it as a given that there *is* a problem with pick-up and oil surge in the V11's, especially when used hard, (A fact reinforced by the fact that the Breva/Griso oil pick-up and delivery system has been completely re-vamped and a completely new sump design installed, it's not just to make the filter easier to get at!) and this being the case I know if I owned one I'd definitely be fitting some sort of baffle/windage plate in it to try and combat the problem. Enzo has a modified one of mine in his V11 and someone has just posted a pic of theirs in another thread. If I could get a template of Enzo's or the other one I can get 'em knocked out pretty cheap in Queanbeyan just up the road from me but I don't often have access to a 'Broad Sump model to play with so it's unlikely I'll be able to make one soon otherwise. Look, to be honest I don't know for sure, but that's my worth and i hope it's helpful and makes sense. Pete