Forkin' around

[Lamedog]

Reinstalled my fork seal and reset air gap with following comment and answer to my question;

 

1. There is a small equalization hole in the upper fork tube that fills the annulus. Saw it first go round but wasn't sure. Pumping the stanchion to pull vacuum by covering it with your hand will rapidly equalize levels in the fork tube and annulus.

 

2. Removing the seals is pretty tough, particularly getting the retaining ring out. Manual's direction to use a screwdriver sounded easy, it was tough. The old seal ('02 bike with 20 k miles) was very brittle and large chunks were coming off. Based on this I initially planned to go after both sides. But removing the old and particularly refitting the new seal was difficult enough I passed until next winter's major service. Probably worth taking the fork to a shop for the seal replace anyway. Rest of the job was straightforward.

 

On to torquing the heads....

[Ouiji Veck]

I love that question. Does a spacer shorten travel?

I've got to add 25mm to my spacer to achieve perfection.

Stiffen the back too....tub o' lard that I am.

I did 100 mi on it. Felt nice and behaved in the 80mph sweepers

and a little less "klunky" over the frost heaves but I believe I can

improve on it thanks to everyones input.

 

ps:

You have to have the pumps in to fill the legs...

otherwise the fork juice would just pour out the bottom....thru the bolt hole...that holds your

pump in.

[Guest ratchethack]

I love that question. Does a spacer shorten travel?

Not if:

 

1. You've got the right spring rate matched to the load.

 

2. The spacer's the right length to give the correct sags.

 

3. The luftkammer (aka air gap) is correctly matched to the load.

 

-- In which case it will provide as much travel as possible.

 

I'm getting 115 mm travel under "normal conditions" (and occasional "semi-abnormal" conditions ) out of a possible 120 mm.

 

Is that enough?

 

On to torquing the heads....

 

Lamedog:

 

Here's a public Roger of your PM and my response:

 

NHF, MF. WLF, etc.

 

LMK if you run into any prob's or have any Q's about torquing the heads. D'you already know about the "buried" 10 mm socket-head screws under the covers over the inboard head studs under the rocker shafts?

[Lamedog]

Just finished torquing heads, and valve adjust using directions I found on this site and "Big Daddy's". Pleasant evening's work. Well except for the part about having to cut thru a hardened 10 mm hex with a dull hacksaw. Alas, no Hex socket for my torque wrench so I had to improvise. Can I get bodger points for this?

 

On the assembly I spent a bit more time on the fitup and torque of the brake calipers - et voila - my bran' new "stock-like" Brembo rotors do fit fine. Big thanks to Todd for guidance on the rotors and springs. I'm not hung up on the sag numbers, I'm where I was for laden sag, and should be firmer as travel increases. Presuming a clean test ride - where my other fork doesn't sprang a leek, my winter service is done. Oh yes, thanks for the quick turnaround on replacement seals Greg. Time to ride.

[nuevototem]

Hi to all,

 

I am today changing the fork oil of my MG V11 Sport 2002-2003.

 

I already do it 1 month ago but the forks did fell very soft. And the changes on the regulator screws did like nothing. So from the softer position to the harder one ther is no much difernece.

 

I did the exactly the manual presses and add 400cc of Castrol 10 SAE Fork Oil.

 

My mechanic told me that the Oil must be wrong, so I am changing it now.

 

Any suggestion or advice folks?

 

 

Thanks in advance,

[Guest ratchethack]

Nuevototem, if I might suggest a superior alternative to adding 400 ml per leg?

 

There are posts on this but I'm in a hurry at the moment. You should be able to find them with a search.

 

The idea is to use the AIR GAP method. Generally, for Marz forks I'm familiar with, the AIR GAP setting is 100 mm. It's measured from the top of the stanchions with springs and spacers out, and fork fully compressed (wheel blocked up as high as it will go). All trapped air is carefully pumped out by pumping the forks as (and after) new oil is added.

 

This method will give you an accurate measurement, and prevents common gross errors of overfilling (with many unwanted consequences!) due to failure to get all the old oil out before refilling -- which I find nearly impossible to do with any certainty or consistency.

 

NOTE: Your photo looks like these forks are identical to mine. They are Marz 40 mm USD. The Guzzi manual recommends back off both compression and rebound adjusters fully counter-clockwise before removing the caps.

 

Also -- the blue anodized adjuster nuts are properly located 22 mm from the threaded end of the fork cartridge assemblies. See prior posts.

 

Good luck, gotta go!

[nuevototem]

Hi to all,

 

Ratchethack my forks are not like yours. Is a 40mm but I don’t have preload adjust, only compression and rebound (16 cliks each).

 

I have disarmed all the forks like in the manual and left the parts leak overnight.

 

You can see in the next picture that there is no preload regulation.

 

 

Best regards,

[nuevototem]

Hi to all,

 

I take some measurements:

 

 

Hi to all,

 

 

I found that there is a difference of 14.5mm (0.57 inches) between the end of the B part (see picture in the manual) and the bottom of adjuster screw.

 

Is this normal? The other leg is the same.

 

Best regards,

[Guest ratchethack]

Hi to all,

 

Ratchethack my forks are not like yours. Is a 40mm but I don’t have preload adjust, only compression and rebound (16 cliks each).

 

I have disarmed all the forks like in the manual and left the parts leak overnight.

 

You can see in the next picture that there is no preload regulation.

 

 

Best regards,

Nuevototem, while not identical, I believe that your forks ARE "nearly" the same as mine. All your photo's look IDENTICAL to my parts. I have no preload adjustment either, only compression and rebound adjustment. They are on separate fork legs (like yours) but only 3 click adjust stops per adjuster on the caps.

 

I cannot find your "part B" as mentioned above. It may be that our service manuals are quite different. My manual was printed 03/01, Cod. 01 92 01 31.

 

You had mentioned in a previous post that you weren't getting any difference in damping between adjuster settings. I suspect this may be because you've lost the original measurement setting between the blue adjuster nuts and the end of the threaded fork cartridge assemblies. This is shown being measured in your first photo in post #83. Mine was 22 mm from the factory. I'd be surprised (but not completely bewildered!) to learn there's any difference between yours and mine in this regard. By re-setting mine to this dimension on installation repeatedly with each oil change and/or dis-assembly, I have a full range of adjustability on both compression and rebound, as before.

 

I would again urge you NOT to use the 400 ml volume fluid replacement method. Despite draining the forks overnight (been there, done that several times), and extensive pumping with cartridges held at various orientations, I found it VERY HARD -- may I say IMPOSSIBLE -- to get all the old oil out!!! With an unknown volume of old oil trapped in internal passages, if you then use the volume replacement method, you will be OVERFILLING the forks -- and very likely quite unevenly. Best use the AIR GAP method, as described elsewhere.

 

Hope this helps.

[nuevototem]

Hi to all,

 

ratchethack thanks again for your help. As you can see in the photo the blue nut is already at the max of the threads. I mean I can not turn down the blue nut any more. Is the same in yours? or the threads have more route?

 

Thanks in advance,

[Ouiji Veck]

Yes Nuevototem....listen to inspector hatchetrack....

Those blue nuts have to be exactly 22mm down from the top of

the threaded rod for your Reb./ Comp. adjusters to work properly.

 

Oops...you snuck in there. YES...I did see your rod is not threaded as far as mine..

Hmmmm...? Inspector?

 

I'm still in the process of dialing in my forks with the new springs...

well...thinking about it anyway...been stealing rides when I should be finishing up

the susp. tuning....Hey...It's spring!

 

Actually from my 150 mi ride yesterday I found the ol' "counter intuitive"

gremlin. Thinking the front was still a bit harsh I was reluctant to turn the adjusters

in thinking It would make the front harsher. But it was a quick thing to do so I set 'em

@ the all purpose setting of 9 clicks out on comp. and 12 out on reb.

 

Though I wasn't thinking about it much because I was squirrel riding with my Monster buddy

the feel was much better. Not cushy or plush but tight skipping over frost heaves that

were previously bone jarring. The suspension was working stiff and fast but it wasn't

being transmitted to the chassi /bars and seat. Probably stiffening the front made the

back take on more of the work. Like I said it's the ol' "counter intuitive" thing...again.

I need to go out alone and feel it again. Still need a spacer too to get sag right.

I'm smiling so far....

I once test rode an Ohlins LeMans. Went with a factory rep. alone around the farm lands of the

Ct. River Valley. I don't know what the deal was (last ride of his long day?) but we touched 110mph.!!??

I was thinkin ...."cool"

Any way I was amazed at how comfortable I was on this "other"

bike...it just fit me and I was totally confident. I never ride other peoples bikes because they feel "strange".

 

Anyway ...upon return he smiles and says.."How'd you like the Ohlins"

A fog cleared and I saw me doing those speeds on those gnarly roads ..a grin and a "wow" was all I could muster. I do believe I'm headed in that direction with my new set up. yayyyyyyyy.

[Guest ratchethack]

Hi to all,

 

ratchethack thanks again for your help. As you can see in the photo the blue nut is already at the max of the threads. I mean I can not turn down the blue nut any more. Is the same in yours? or the threads have more route?

 

Thanks in advance,

YIKES , Nuevototem!

 

This is indeed different than my fork! You evidently have a different starting point than the 22 mm that The Weej and I have. Have you changed yours from the stock setting? Do you know wot it was to begin with?

 

I'd previously been surprised to find apparently IDENTICAL Marz forks with entirely different rate springs in 'em from Mandello. Now I'm slightly baffled again by another Marz model change. It ain't the first time and it more'n likely won't be the last. I reckon one of the toughest challenges we face, Gents, is to de-puzzle differences between components that evidently happened more frequently than casual observation would indicate -- I've gotta wonder how dealers keep track of this stuff, when apparently there's no "play book"?!?!?!

 

I reckon they do wot we do -- live and learn and build your own knowledge base as you go.

 

Sure would be nice if the Guzzi service manuals provided SOME kind of hints about model changes, n'est-ce pas?

 

Many apologies for any confusion -- I'm tryin' to do the best I can. . . .

 

Actually from my 150 mi ride yesterday I found the ol' "counter intuitive"

gremlin.

Hm. This is just me, but I've found many aspects of suspension in general to be counter-intuitive. Throw in wot appears to be arbitrary model changes, incomplete manuals and a language translation curve, and this adds up to ---- exactly the kinda challenges we enjoy the most! (or we wouldn't be doin' it, right?)

 

I'm pleased to know you seem to be getting it properly sorted, Weej.

 

I'm goin' out f'er a ride in the local mountains myself. Clear day, beautiful mountain air, Guzzi tuned to a "T" -- wot better way to clear the head, eh?

[nuevototem]

Hi to all,

 

ratchethack you don’t need to apologies for helping people out!

 

More in my investigation now I add a little rubber (I take it from a those pencils with rubber) of 12mm more or less. I test it and works OK!

 

 

So I don’t know what wrong here but I can’t push the blue nut more because there is no more threads.

 

I don’t remember if this was this way when I take it out it one month ago. I did not take pictures.

 

Anyway now I know how to make fine tuning to the compression and rebound.

 

Best regards.

[big J]

Nuevototem, while not identical, I believe that your forks ARE "nearly" the same as mine. All your photo's look IDENTICAL to my parts. I have no preload adjustment either, only compression and rebound adjustment. They are on separate fork legs (like yours) but only 3 click adjust stops per adjuster on the caps.

 

I cannot find your "part B" as mentioned above. It may be that our service manuals are quite different. My manual was printed 03/01, Cod. 01 92 01 31.

 

You had mentioned in a previous post that you weren't getting any difference in damping between adjuster settings. I suspect this may be because you've lost the original measurement setting between the blue adjuster nuts and the end of the threaded fork cartridge assemblies. This is shown being measured in your first photo in post #83. Mine was 22 mm from the factory. I'd be surprised (but not completely bewildered!) to learn there's any difference between yours and mine in this regard. By re-setting mine to this dimension on installation repeatedly with each oil change and/or dis-assembly, I have a full range of adjustability on both compression and rebound, as before.

 

I would again urge you NOT to use the 400 ml volume fluid replacement method. Despite draining the forks overnight (been there, done that several times), and extensive pumping with cartridges held at various orientations, I found it VERY HARD -- may I say IMPOSSIBLE -- to get all the old oil out!!! With an unknown volume of old oil trapped in internal passages, if you then use the volume replacement method, you will be OVERFILLING the forks -- and very likely quite unevenly. Best use the AIR GAP method, as described elsewhere.

 

Hope this helps.

As I've told you already,you will never get all the oil out without completely dismantling the damper cartridges.The rebound leg,if I remember correctly has no holes at the top,so when inverted is like a cup holding all the oil.You can pump away like a cross between a porn star and an anti aircraft gun,the oil will stay where it is.The fork leg will therefore retain the majority of the old oil.It should be completely dismantled to clean it out.There's plenty of crap in there which has to come out to avoid premature wear.

[Tom M]

Nuevototem,

You might try flipping your blue nuts over if you want them to screw further down the damper rods. I'm pretty sure that the blue nuts in my forks weren't threaded all the way through, they were counterbored on one end. I'm positive that the one in your picture is upside down from the way mine were oriented.

 

Ouiji,

Most of the suspension tuning stuff that I've read says to start with your compression damping all the way out, then add it as needed. I think these 'zokes seem to have a fair amount of comp damping even with the adjuster only 1 or 2 clicks in. I thought my forks were terrible when I first bought the bike, then I backed the comp adjuster out to about 5 clicks in from zero and they were much less wooden feeling.

 

I just did 100+ miles yesterday on my newly resprung forks. Big difference from the stockers! Fork dive under braking is a thing of the past. I like it.