Guest ratchethack Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 . . .I swear I remember you complaining in one of these posts of a running problem, though, that you attributed to not having an air gap, and naturally assumed that all this experimentation had a purpose, such as to fix that running problem. O' course you're entitled to any assumptions you'd care to make at any time -- right or wrong. Generally speaking, I find it a good idea to have a full grasp of wot it is I'm responding to on any Forum. But as always, that's just me. . . . . .and sure as the sun's gonna come up tomorrow, somebody's M is always gonna V on this one. . . and by a great wallopping number o' MPG's, at that. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Field Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Per previous posts, I had discovered that using a 1.5" OD fender washer between the plastic holder and the sensor as a heat sink made a noticeable improvement in the otherwise unacceptable idle and low-RPM behavior with the thermo-paste installed. Today, I figured better take the heat sink thing the next step forward, and do it properly and test it properly before surgery on the harness. So I chamfered a 45 degree bevel in the center hole of a vertically-finned, axial heat sink similar to this: I knew I was not hallucinating. You still think it impossible for someone to think there was a problem and that you were experimenting in effort to correct it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I knew I was not hallucinating. You still think it impossible for someone to think there was a problem and that you were experimenting in effort to correct it? Impossible? Impossible!? (Part II) Why, according to consensus, there ain't much of anything in the Whole Wide Universe (or out of it, for that matter) that's impossible, Greg. Just ask Dave. You can dream up, assume, imagine, speculate, think, believe, or cast great wallopping hyperbolic hallucinations upon just about anything you want -- or not. It's a free Internet (at least for the most part, and at least for now). . . You might've noticed the first word in that post (I thought it was pretty hard to miss there, all by it's lonesome): UPDATE: ^That might've been your first clue to a work in progress. Yep, after all the care and repetition I went to to explain, re-explain, and re-re-re-. . . etc. up front and throughout -- Without much of any Q a-tall, I'd say downright Impossible -- assuming you had a sincere interest in wot you were responding to, and that you therefore paid much've any medium-grade level of attention to it, that is. Now if that's an unacceptable, or somehow unfair ASSUMPTION on my part -- all bets 'r off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Field Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Consider the possibility that you are not communicating as clearly as you think you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Consider the possibility that you are not communicating as clearly as you think you are. Oh, I consider exactly this quite carefully and quite often, Greg. You see, I haven't yet "learned" the "art" (It surely ain't skill) of communicating in sound bites and bumper-sticker format, which (sadly) has lately become the default communication mode of Popular Kulture. Sadly (Part II), Popular Kulture is strictly limited to communication of concepts of approx. 8-yr. old intellectual development. I hope I never fall into those particular insidious and pervasive habits, though all too many have, and I reckon it's an accelerating trend. Should I dumb down my posts to the lowest common denominator in the interest of clarity? I think not. This is a Technical Forum, and the devil, as they say, is often in the details. If you youself had picked up some of the basics in what I'd repeated many times previously, you wouldn't have leaped to the incorrect conclusions you've made about what I'm doing here in your above posts. To avoid exactly this kind of confusion by those not paying close attention, I've come to prefer more comprehensive posts with as much detail as I figure might be needed. Now striking a 3-way balance between length of post, repetition of previously posted points in an on-going process, development of complex concepts, and level of detail of content will vary tremendously. But it's interesting to note how many complaints I seem to get over long posts and too much repetition, while at the same time whining over lack of full disclosure in the midst of a continuing process spread over many weeks of posts, don't you think? Any level of detail will always be too much for some, and waddayagonna do? Sadly (Part III), I suppose, from a Popular Kulture Perspective, the "affliction" I seem to be burdened with comes from reading books. Those who embrace Popular Kulture don't read books -- any books. Nor periodicals, nor editorials, nor Guzzi service manuals, nor much of anything. Ergo, the appalling failure of Popular Kulture Philistines to grasp a growing profusion of adult level concepts beyond child level. Why, some adult concepts can actually take pages, chapters, or even complete volumes to develop properly, even by the planet's most gifted professional writers. . . As a published author yourself, I'm pretty sure you understand this. Sadly (Part IV), many can't. Can you recall a time when a great many adults both wrote and thought in patterns beyond sound bite level, and could therefore actually demonstrate mastery of complex concepts?? No Popular Kulture Philistine I know of can, and today the woods 'r full of 'em. The Philistines wouldn't have noticed in the first place, couldn't care less, and can't be bothered to consider such things. They've been permanently conditioned to THINK in sound-bite format at a child's comprehension level, and adult level concepts are all gibberish to them. Nevertheless, there are still some such as Yours Truly who're yet more than an entire generation away from joining the local Continuing Care Community who've somehow managed to buck the rising tide of The Insidious Great Dumbing Down. . . Yes, I know how insufferable this^ (and so much more!) is to Philistines everywhere. Straight truth-telling, rare as it's becoming these days, is increasingly hard on the sensitive ears of a great many these days. . . And so it goes. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Field Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 So it's someone else's fault when you are misunderstood? I'd suggest to you that if you stop lecturing and stay on-topic, you will enjoy two benefits: 1) Fewer folks will tune out. 2) Those who do tune in will understand exactly what you are trying to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 So it's someone else's fault when you are misunderstood? I'd suggest to you that if you stop lecturing and stay on-topic, you will enjoy two benefits: 1) Fewer folks will tune out. 2) Those who do tune in will understand exactly what you are trying to say. Greg, I'd be more than pleased if many more would tune out, and have openly invited more to do so multiple times in this thread with great enthusiasm -- including in several of my most recent replies to you above. Look, as long as someone conveys sincere interest, I'll always expend sincere effort to both learn, and if possible, to help. I think my record on the Forum reflects this pretty consistently. However, I don't post for the approval, nor for the entertainment of anyone else, and I have NO interest wotsoever in attracting any attention by the number. Though I make a fairly sincere as well as effective effort, I b'lieve, I'm afraid I'm not all that concerned about those who, lacking sincere interest, can't, don't, or simply won't understand, and I'm not all that interested in assigning fault, either. If people want to read my posts they will, and if not they won't. That's always worked pretty well for me in both directions, though those who respond to my posts without reading them or even attempting to comprehend them irritate the living Bejeebers out o' me -- but that's just background noise, I find it easy enough to ignore, and I reckon over the coming years there's gonna be more and more o' that on the o-scope coming from the great unwashed sliding down the slimy backside o' the slippery slope o' Popular Kultural degeneracy -- and waddayagonna do? But I tire now of the low level of sincere interest in the topic at hand. I'll be picking it up again with my next UPDATE. Catch all y'all on the flip-flop. Or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Field Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I'm gonna give those square tires a try . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuzziMoto Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Generally speaking, I find it a good idea to have a full grasp of wot it is I'm responding to on any Forum. But as always, that's just me. . . Dang, that's funny. I nearly pissed my pants when I read that. Thanks, RH. I needed a good laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzzi2Go Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I think it would make more sense to not put the resistor in series, but have it as a complete bypass.For example, once warmed up one could hit the bypass using maybe a 500 ohm resistor and the engine would always assume to be 70°C. .... Yes, it probably would make more sense. It is certainly easier to live with, since the behavior of such a setup is more predictable. Downside is that it would require "user input", whereas the resistor in series would work "automagically". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emry Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Why not just put a big'ol stereo knob up on that upper clamp and do away with the dang oil/head/hot air non-maybe-some-fillerup-air gap brass but shouda been some kinda plasticy something or other. Then you could just dial away all the running troubles. Weeeee!!!! Volume up!!! Maybe i'll market it and call it "Dial-a-Knob" Maybe I can cash out before Dial-a-Jet sues me. I bet if all the silly banter continues we can beat that elastomer / hysteresis - hysterious(look that up in the urban dicitionary) drilling thread. We are almost there. We can out think the Italians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstallons Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 You (emry) understand that a resistance value of the sensor is interpreted by the ecm as a specific temperature. When you fiddle with resistance the the computer gets a false reading of actual temperature. this activity is the same as playing with the tps adjustment. Nothing is "fixed", but the ecm is tricked into believing the throttle angle is greater than actual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Yes, it probably would make more sense. It is certainly easier to live with, since the behavior of such a setup is more predictable. Downside is that it would require "user input", whereas the resistor in series would work "automagically". Yah, I have enough trouble remembering to turn off my turn signal.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 You (emry) understand that a resistance value of the sensor is interpreted by the ecm as a specific temperature. When you fiddle with resistance the the computer gets a false reading of actual temperature. this activity is the same as playing with the tps adjustment. Nothing is "fixed", but the ecm is tricked into believing the throttle angle is greater than actual. True, but tweeking the TPS messes with the fuel and the ignition at the same time, so results are not as simple as if it was simply enriching. Tweeking the resistance value of the engine temp sensor can be more predictable. One dial might not be enough. As Guzzi2go suggested, automagically is good. You could design it with three knobs, one to lean low temps, one to enrichen high temps, and one to effect how automagical it is. You could also design it with one knob that would just effect either the low temp leaning or high temp enrichening degree of automagicness. Many possibilities! You could even get a wide band oxygen sensor to have a closed loop effect by modifying the current flow from the temperature or altitude sensors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzzi2Go Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Or one could just stick the temp sensor up his , keep it nice and warm and have even more predictable results. And I bet that the phrase "riding feeling" would get a whole new meaning too. Volume II (a short one, but nonetheless...), about influence of heat sink applied to the temp sensor is coming. Brace yourselves! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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