Guest ratchethack Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Gents! I get more and more perturbed over the years every time I read another complaint of "how hard it is" to change oil on a V11. I b'lieve the complainers have no idea wot they're talking about, relatively speaking. Even when the sump has to come off, it ain't nearly as hard as many other motorcycles. But of course, the sump rarely has to come off!!! -- How about so infrequently (if ever!), that it probably exceeds the average motorcycle ownership period many times over!!! Changing the filter through the manhole cover couldn't be much simpler or easier, IMHO. Changing oil without a filter change is about as easy as an oil change ever gets on anything that uses oil?!?! I just spent the better part of an ENTIRE MORNING changing oil and filter on my XT600 thumper. And this one's among the easier of bikes in it's class. It requires: Drain oil from frame. Drain oil from crankcase/trans. Drain oil cooler. Drain oil filter housing. Remove old filter and seal new one inside the case with sealant. Fill, run and check level, "burp" air/test flow at bleed screw, add oil at least 3X as oil fills frame, cooler, and filter housing. NOTE: Unlike the Guzzi, there's NO WAY POSSIBLE to avoid extended "dry" startup after re-filling by pre-filling the filter housing. Now I've got a pile of oily newspaper and rags, an assortment of oily funnels and odd-size containers --- and I ain't even refilled it yet, 'cause I'm "baking" on the sealant I used on the o-ringed filter cover before I put oil in. Without doing this, the cover seeps! I'm not complaining about the XT, I'm just appreciating the fact that I would've had the Guzzi done in about 1/10 the time and would've been riding hours ago. I won't even be able to put new oil in the XT until this evening, when the sealant has cured!!! I've heard about far more complex oil change routines than this on many other bikes!!!! The beefs that get aired on Forums have a tendency to blow things WAAAAAAAAY out o' proportion. It drives those without experience or a proper frame of reference away. So KWITCHERBEEFIN'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeBenGuzzi Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 AHMEN brotha, bout time someone put it into perspective, my friends R6 you have to take off the fairings and then the filter is behind the header, thats a REAL treat we got it so easy its not even funny. what current bike besides maybe an beamer could be this easy to work on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 Although it takes me five minutes to screw the manhole back on without stripping the threads, or optionally dealing with the hoses annoyingly attached to the pan, I must say it really is not that bad, and the aesthetics of no visible oil filter is a plus. How about the service bulletin for simply checking the oil level on a beemer Service BulletinBMW Motorcycles Bulletin No: 11 005 02 (020) Date: April 2002 Details: Subject: Checking engine oil level - All 4V opposed twin models. Check the engine oil level as described in the current rider’s manuals and as detailed below: 1) Check the oil level only with the engine at its normal operating temperature. Normal operating temperature means a minimum oil temperature of 95°C (203° F) or, in the case of motorcycles manufactured as of December 1997, the temperature at which the oil thermostat starts to open, as indicated by heat build up in the oil cooler. 2) After switching off the engine, wait at least 5 minutes before checking the engine oil level. Less than 5 minutes and the oil will not have adequate time to fully drain into the sump. 3) The motorcycle must be upright and standing on a level , firm surface. Important Note: Factors that frequently make the oil level appear too low: 1) Checking the engine oil level with the engine cold and when the ambient temperature is low. At an ambient temperature/engine temperature of minus 10°C (14°F), the oil level is about 10 mm lower than at operating temperature. This is due to the different coefficients of thermal expansion of engine oil and materials of the engine as well as the gas solubility of oil, which in turn is influenced by other factors. The red ring of the oil sight glass has a diameter of 25 mm and this corresponds to a difference of approximately 0.5 litre in the quantity of oil in the engine. An oil level found to be midway up the sight glass when the oil is checked at operating temperature can drop to “minimum” when the oil is checked again at a very low temperature. Details: 2) Checking the oil level after the engine has run for no more than a short time. This includes, for example, riding the motorcycle out of the garage and onto the driveway. The cold, viscous engine oil is distributed through the engine and in some instances can take several hours to drain back into the sump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete roper Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 Errr. Hang on guys. I take it this thread was started as a response to Crooze's statement that he found changing the oil a chore? Look, while I too think that almost anything on a Guzzi is an absolute breeze compared to most *modern* bikes I do consider myself relatively mechanically proficient, I'm not 'Time Poor' and I don't need to rely on a dealer two hours away to do my work. While I agree wholeheartedly that swapping the oil and even the filter on a V11 can hardly be described as arduous you *do* need a weird allen key thingy for the 'Manhole' and the filter is so inconveniently inaccessible that you do need a filter wrench to install it Now those things aren't a problem for us and compared with the sh!tfight involved in servicing some *modern* bikes they are really faily minor but I think it's a bit unfair to get up the bloke simply because he was unhappy with the bike! Guzzis aren't for everyone, the small volume nature of the beasts and the rather flimsy dealer support does mean that some people feel intimidated by ownership of something so different and it takes 'em out of their comfort zone or they simply don't feel that in this day and age you should have to 'Put up' with such *inadequate* service. While these sorts of things wouldn't effect me because before I make a purchase of something like a motorbike I make damn sure I know what I'm getting in to if you are used to things being hassle free and just *working* then reading our gripes and grumbles on this and other forums must be a bit intimidating. The thing that really annoys me is that my poxy Moto Guzzis never seem to break down so I have nothing to gripe about OK occasionally one of my older ones will do something like bust a cable or a spark plug will die if I leave it in there for over 50,000kms but I can't kill mine with a sh!tty stick and it's not because I'm *fastidious* with maintenance! Hit it with a big hammer once a year, put petrol in it and ride it till it stops! Works for me!!!! Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 Sorry Crooze, no bashing intended. snip Wait a second, why am I apologizing, you bashed Crooze about as much as I did <_>Heck, I did not even think it was about Crooze until you mentioned it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 Oh, OK, let's talk valves then. Rode with some cat on a Truimph 675 ( beautiful!) who also has a Ducati. Warming himself up to the necessary training and other indoctrination required, he had more than a little trouble even saying, "dez-moe-dromm-ick." He noticed the Guzzi offering itself up to the task, so to speak. "Yes," sez I, "It's a joy actually." He never mentioned poinking the valves on the Trumpet . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badmotogoozer Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 Probably shouldn't mention how dead simple my two old Ducs and Trumpet are when it comes to changing oil and adjusting valves... OK, the Desmo single is a bit tougher on the valve adjust... The Guzzi can be a pain in the ass, especially the first few times. Using the manhole is futile. Never did find a wrench that wouldn't slip on the oil covered filter and the "jimmy" tool required to open the manhole is ridiculous too. Certainly not as "dead simple" as WackoRatto implies. No need to jump all over Crooz if he's decided it ain't the bike for him. Rj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SantaFeRider Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 Probably shouldn't mention how dead simple my two old Ducs and Trumpet are when it comes to changing oil and adjusting valves... OK, the Desmo single is a bit tougher on the valve adjust... The Guzzi can be a pain in the ass, especially the first few times. Using the manhole is futile. Never did find a wrench that wouldn't slip on the oil covered filter and the "jimmy" tool required to open the manhole is ridiculous too. Certainly not as "dead simple" as WackoRatto implies. No need to jump all over Crooz if he's decided it ain't the bike for him. Rj so, now that my V-11 Le Mans is again rideable (by my titanium laden knee) thanks to the new forward controls supplied by one of our members, and the only Guzzi dealer we had in New Mexico has bitten the dust, what is the size of th weird Allen key necessary to remove the manhole (handhole)? and where do I buy such a thinghie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 . . .what is the size of th weird Allen key necessary to remove the manhole (handhole)? and where do I buy such a thinghie? SFR, congrat's on going bionic with titanium! "Gentlemen, we can rebuild him. We have the technology. . .Better than he was before. Better. Stronger. Faster. . ." I can't advise where to get an "official" tool for the job, but I can tell you that if you find a 27 mm nut at your fastener supply and have your friendly local welder tack it to the end of a 1" x 1/4" x 10" bar strap, the total cost will be $2-3 USD, and by personal experience, this works like a Champ. FWIW -- Having owned 12 motorcycles and doing 100% of my own maintenance on every one of 'em over the better part of more than 40 years -- As long as you've got halfway decent tools for the job, I can't think of one I've owned that's been as quick and easy to change oil and filter as the Guzzi. . . BAA, TJM, & YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nose2wind Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 so, now that my V-11 Le Mans is again rideable (by my titanium laden knee) thanks to the new forward controls supplied by one of our members, and the only Guzzi dealer we had in New Mexico has bitten the dust, what is the size of th weird Allen key necessary to remove the manhole (handhole)? and where do I buy such a thinghie? I just use a nut (size per ratchet post) I just hold it and put a crescent wrench on it and turn. What I do find indespensable is a funny oil filter wrench tool I bought somewhere. It has 3 prongs that are cam mounted to the base of the unit that fits on a ratchet. First remove the three plastic covers (worthless) that fit on the prongs. You insert it into the manhole and the 3 prongs fit around the filter. When you unscrew the thing the cams tighten the prongs around the filter and it comes right off. It is way better than those cap things that fit on the end of a filter. It is a one size fits all oil filter remover. It is not for puttin them back on. I have had this thing remove a filter so tight it started to twist and destort the shitty metal of the filter but still pulled it off. It has major grip. The harder you resist the tighter it gets. Any of you guys having trouble removing those filters with the sump on need one of these babys. Easy oil change, the hardest part to me is getting the manhole cover lined up to not cross thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drjim99 Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 so, now that my V-11 Le Mans is again rideable (by my titanium laden knee) thanks to the new forward controls supplied by one of our members, and the only Guzzi dealer we had in New Mexico has bitten the dust, what is the size of th weird Allen key necessary to remove the manhole (handhole)? and where do I buy such a thinghie? If you don't want to go the "DIY" route to make-up a manhole cover wrench you have a couple of choices: Harper's Moto Guzzi sells a tool similar to the one RatchetHack had made-up by his local welder. Alternatively, in an earlier thread on this topic, a couple of forum members found a 27mm Hex Socket made specifically for this application. The tool is available directly from ZDMAK for $21.99 including shipping, go to http://www.toolss.com/ and search for VA6011. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badmotogoozer Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 You can also take off the rear axle nut (which is exactly the right size) and use a wrench with it as Robbie points out. I did this a few times before deciding I'd just take off the sump when I change. Not really that much more work and gets quicker every time you do it. Rj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 You can also take off the rear axle nut (which is exactly the right size) and use a wrench with it as Robbie points out. I did this a few times before deciding I'd just take off the sump when I change. Not really that much more work and gets quicker every time you do it. Rj And by taking the pan off you can get a more complete oil change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchbob Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Hate to inject a pessimistic note, here, but the first [and only] time I changed the oil on my V11, the thread on the boss the plug fits into came out with the plug. Luigi and his windy-gun, I presume! I put in a cut-down helicoil and loctited it, so next oil change scenarios are: - I did it properly and my oil changing in future will be a pleasure [seems unlikely on past performance] - break the pan trying to get the plug out because some of the loctite got onto the plug thread - never touch the plug again [drop the pan] On the other hand, I was with a well-known member of the French Voxan Club yesterday, a guy I respect enormously and who races and restores old bikes for a living. I asked him how easy Voxans are to service. His reply was "I take mine to the dealer".................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormsedge Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Personally, I've given up on the "manhole cover" and the growing array of filter wrenches that just plain don't work...cutting my oil change time significantly by just draining it and going straight for dropping the pan. This gives me a chance to lay on my back, inspect other things on the bike , and physically get my hands on the filter for the tightening sequence/event, which has been something of literary legend here. It also makes my neighbors who have "other" bike brands think that I know what I am doing. k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now