Guest dkgross Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 During a discussion last night about my old BMW, the topic of spark plugs came up. I remember that a LOT of my surging issues when away when I switched brands of plug from whatever the OEM ones were, to BRISK plugs: http://plugs.janmax.com/sparks.aspx anyone have any experience with them on their LeMans? I've emailed them with this website info from NGK for a LeMans: http://www.ngk.com/results_appOther.asp?ot...ID=30689&mfid=1 thoughts???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_roethlisberger Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Hrmm, well I put the Iridium NGKs in mine when I was having some of my "cough"/mifire issues just on a lark. I don't know if they improved the problem, as Mike and I adjusted the valves the same weekend.... and everything did get better. But you know where I'm putting my money on what actually had the most effect The reason I had put the Iridiums in in the first place was that the guys at Hare Racing, that did my dyno run and PCIII map, really recommended the Denso Iridium plugs... and if I couldn't find those, the NGKs are probably just as good. I had run across some NGKs, so just picked them up.... But then as I continue on my dual-plug setup, Mike Rich has me going to a two step cooler(8 in NGK-ese) plug, and since I had to buy some more, I ordered some of the Denso's from www.clubplug.net who seem to be really knowledgeable and helpful when trying to figure out cross-references, etc BTW. Anyway, bottom line, I have no idea if the NGK Iridiums or Denso equivalents make any real difference.... yet anyway. If you think they might, they aren't prohibitively expensive, about $7 each I think. So you can experiment cheaply. I suspect they are "better" but by how much, who knows... al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dkgross Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 here's a reply from the folks who sell the BRISK plugs: According BRISK Identification system I would recommend LOR15LGS or one step colder LOR14LGS. This is your choice, because I don't know anything about Moto Guzzi, sorry. Take a look BRISK Identification system at http://plugs.janmax.com/Identification.aspx Best regards, Max -----Original Message----- From: David Gross [mailto:dkgross@mac.com] Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 1:46 PM To: Support Subject: Re: BRISK Spark Plugs Well..according to the NGK website, these three different ones will work: Motor Model: 1100 Model: V11 Sport Year: 2003-1998 IX iridium BPR6EIX GP platinum BPR6EGP traditional spark plug BPR6ES dg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 Brisk recommended an extremely projected tip for our bikes?!?!? I would be careful with that recommendation. You do not want to burn a hole or crash a hole in your piston. What bugs me is the blast of gas stain on my stock NGKs. I really want to try indexing the plugs to give a surer spark. Or maybe even go with a non projected tip to see if it reduces pinging. (My bike does not ping, but that is only because it is running so rich.) I have even thought of RX7 plugs which are recessed. But I want to be sure of the heat range before trying them. Iridium plugs should allow you to open up the plug gap a little to get a bigger spark. If you do not open the gap up wider than stock then your performance improvement will be minimal, unless something was wrong to begin with. How much you can open the plug gap safely? I have no idea. 0.8mm would probably be a safe bet. (Stock is 0.7mm) Theoretically you may ping more easily the bigger your spark is, unless you go with a colder range plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 Youch! I just took a look at that Brisk plug. Not sure it would be a good thing because the spark may want to jump to the piston. Maybe I'm paranoid, but unless that was LESS projected than stock, I would not try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest russ Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 My buddy just switched to the 4 prong plugs (I think they were Bosch Platinums?) toaday on his Oilhead BMW and said that it idles better and surging is no more. I don't have a problem with the stockers but if it offers an improvement, well plugs are pretty cheap and it only requires 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Stewart Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 Humm, Spark plugs, I am a firm believer in a hot spark. The limiting factor on increasing your plug gap is available voltage at the plug. I think dual plugging is the way to go on the Guzzi mainly because the combustion chamber shape and plug location sucks. Its the flame path that suffers. What ever happened to Splitfire plugs, seems like they were the hit a few years back and now you never hear of them anymore. I would like to try Capacitive discharge system to give the plugs a longer burn time. The extra voltage would also be welcomed as would a slightly larger plug gap. Another winter project in the works. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callison Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 I tried Splitfire plugs on my Sport 1100i a few years back. No noticeable difference. The MG combustion chamber is probably so inefficient you can't benefit from the plug improvement if there is any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 Has anyone tried the "New Volt" ignition amplifier? http://www.evoluzione.net/vitem87005.htm It seems like it may be too much money to spend on something that works well enough stock. But if you went to twin plugs or higher compression, it may be more critical to get enough voltage consistently, and then the investment would pay off. Also, I am having second thoughts about the Brisk plugs. Perhaps there is enough squish area between the piston and the plug so that the spark arcing to the piston is not an issue. Does anyone know roughly what the distance is from the piston at TDC to the spark plug tip? I guess it would not be difficult to measure. If the spark jumping to the piston was an issue, what problems might it cause? Main bearing failure? Ring failure? Pinging? No problems, but rather performance improvement??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_roethlisberger Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 Brisk recommended an extremely projected tip for our bikes?!?!?I would be careful with that recommendation. You do not want to burn a hole or crash a hole in your piston. What bugs me is the blast of gas stain on my stock NGKs. I really want to try indexing the plugs to give a surer spark. Or maybe even go with a non projected tip to see if it reduces pinging. (My bike does not ping, but that is only because it is running so rich.) I have even thought of RX7 plugs which are recessed. But I want to be sure of the heat range before trying them. Iridium plugs should allow you to open up the plug gap a little to get a bigger spark. If you do not open the gap up wider than stock then your performance improvement will be minimal, unless something was wrong to begin with. How much you can open the plug gap safely? I have no idea. 0.8mm would probably be a safe bet. (Stock is 0.7mm) Theoretically you may ping more easily the bigger your spark is, unless you go with a colder range plug. The Iridium plugs, well at least the Denso's... are gapped at the factory, and it's not necessarily the same stock gap as the standard plugs. But the box does say all over it, DO NOT REGAP, so I'm guess they have it optimized for how the plug is designed. If you are interested in a CDI system, the Nology HotWires are essentially this..... sorta.... but I've been steered away from them. They are very pricey. And as far as the ignition amplifier goes, I dunno. I've asked about it here in the forum before, as well on other lists, and have received luke-warm thoughts. No one got too excited about it. I might consider it if I have spark issues with the dual-plug setup, but the folks at TLM seem to have had no issues with their implementations on the stock setup. So we'll see. al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 Al, As a dual plugger, I imagine you would benefit from the long lasting iridium plug just because the second plug is more of a pain to access. Is the amount of energy going to coils limited by the ECU such that the dual plug coils will have to split the available voltage? Or does the voltage flow unrestricted from the battery and alternator? I am sure TLM is correct that it will work, but I'll bet the output per plug has got to drop, not 50%, but significantly. But hey, you'll have twice as many chances for a successful ignition of the mixture and I am sure the bike will run great. I just think that you, as a dual plugger, are much more likely to benefit from an ignition boost. But maybe good plug wires and iridium plugs are all you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dkgross Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 Youch!I just took a look at that Brisk plug. Not sure it would be a good thing because the spark may want to jump to the piston. Maybe I'm paranoid, but unless that was LESS projected than stock, I would not try it. The same concern came up with the BMW List as far as plug tip depth. Apparently, the Brisks take all that into consideration in their design, and when they cross-reference their part number with the NGK number, it brings up the proper 'length' of plug. Only difference is the temperature at which it runs. anyone want to be brave and try a set? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callison Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 I am sure TLM is correct that it will work, but I'll bet the output per plug has got to drop, not 50%, but significantly. Nope. Dwell time is more than adequate for the coil to saturate the core. The two sides of the coil aren't separate either, they're bifilar wound. They're going to act identical and any difference between the two plugs off of one dual-plug coil will be solely the result of the wires, plugs (gap) and the mixture resistance in the combustion chamber at that specific plug when it fires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dkgross Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Gang.. The guys at Brisk offered my 2 pairs of plugs for a great price...so I think I may try them. I've also invited them to look at this thread and feel free to comment. Like I had said..they made a HUGE difference in they way my BMW 1150 RT ran, and now I'm curious as to how they'll run in the Guzzi...Of course, do I want the hotter ones or the cooler ones. I will verify with them that the spark plug depth will not be an issue. Any takers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 I'd try it if the distance from the electrode to the piston at TDC was significantly greater than the plug gap. The plug gap looks like about 3 or 4 times the stock gap, so you better get good wires to go with it. I like the concept, but their are a lot of ifs and buts to be concerned about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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