More pony's please

[Guest rosso mandello]

Is there anyone in SoCal good at porting Guzzis????

 

In that case, good lives in Denmark. He did porting, squish and all on my Rosso Mandello, and it works. He installed FBF pistons, and I have ridden it for abour 600 km´s now and the difference is great

On top of all the cheap mods, exhaust and air intake PC III and all the other tricks, this is the real thing. No pinging under fast, normal conditions, but if I go 180 km.s and want to get the last out of it (plenty left) i get pinging in 6. gear.

Solution, 5. gear and off we go. So, if I keep up the revs, no problem. I lift the front wheel in first and second gear on pure power, cool.

 

Speed is one thing, to own a wery special guzzi is another issue an HAYABUSA can not beat.

 

Mogens

[Skeeve]

If you get some Carrillo rods and Mike Rich pistons, I am sure Guzzi Classics could install them, get the engine balanced and the squish set. But those are pretty serious mods.

You have already exhausted all the cheap power upgrades.

The cheapest next upgrade could be to set the squish, and the next cheapest would be the Mike Rich Pistons, and then the next cheapest will be porting, but anything you do will send you back to the dyno for custom mapping.

 

Well, setting the squish would defeat getting the Mike Rich pistons, since by his own admission, their only purpose is to generate the C.R. promised by the factory by utilizing the stock combustion chamber shape and provide an actual squish band - the factory apparently dropped the ball w/ somewhere & didn't match the pistons w/ the redesigned combustion chamber (vs. 1100 Spot/Sporti heads.)

 

Mike Rich told me himself that he doesn't recommend spending the money on his porting services unless you're really intent on going the whole 9 yards: for most purposes, installing his "corrected" pistons will provide the best price/performance boost available. Now, admittedly this could all be blatant self-promotion, but if that were the case, why would he actively discourage going the porting route vs. replacing the pistons? And as we covered long ago in the thread about setting the squish, of the piston profiles available, Mike's pistons appear to be more amenable to effective combustion. And as such, not likely require meaningful changes to the stock map.

 

So what I'm driving at is that as a potentially "drop in" solution, the Mike Rich pistons may be about the same cost as setting the squish, once you factor in intangibles like down-time, ease of installation, etc.

 

As far as porting goes, anyone on the board w/ a modicum of patience & aptitude can do their own 'clean up' of their heads, and derive a significant %age of the value of professionally done porting w/o risking large changes to their fuel map, powerband, etc. There's lots of info on the web about "How to do Stage 1 porting of your small block (car, not Guzzi! )" & the like to get that 5-10% improvement that's "built in" by rough castings, sloppy assembly, etc. from the manufacturer. Just remember not to mess w/ the floor of the exhaust port.

 

[This is not to say I've already done mine, of course: I'm far too worried about getting 1/2 way into this, losing momentum as some "crisis" among my friends or family inevitably interrupts my project, & then parts start walking away, someone comes by to observe & knocks things over, etc. & the whole thing turns into a giant mess! What I really need is a spacious workshop w/ it's own attached apartment that I can go to & LOCK EVERYONE ELSE OUT & concentrate on doing what I want! Ah well, enough fantasizing...]

 

Anyway, big bore kits which fundamentally detract from the appeal of the Guzzi (by their increased complexity) aside, there is definitely room for "maximization of potential" among our riding community, no matter what you or Ratchethack thinks about the "best approach." Me, I support a "picking the low-hanging fruit" approach of tuning the stock suspension & massaging the engine to get it give what it easily (& relatively cheaply) can is the right approach (for me, not everyone.)

 

Right now, I'm a long way from that ideal. But I sure do enjoy thrashing it out here on V11LM!

[GuzziMoto]

Mike Rich pistons are a good idea but why would you not set the squish when using them? Particularly since you've got the cylinders off to replace the pistons anyway. And setting the squish properly would maximize the benefit of the pistons.

[Skeeve]

Mike Rich pistons are a good idea but why would you not set the squish when using them? Particularly since you've got the cylinders off to replace the pistons anyway. And setting the squish properly would maximize the benefit of the pistons.

 

In this context, "setting the squish" was a reference to the not inconsiderable lengths necessary to do so w/ the stock components [which have a discernable mismatch between the squish band cast into the head and the shelf cast into the pistons, requiring machining etc. to resolve] vs. the "drop in" status for the Mike Rich pistons. Naturally, due to manufacturing tolerances, even nominally "drop in" components should be checked to make sure the clearance is adequate w/o being excessive. So yes, if installing the Mike Rich pistons, you would want to practice due diligence to get the most from them, but they should *not* require skimming the heads.

 

Sorry for any confusion!

[GuzziMoto]

I follow you now. I would agree, with the Hr Pistons you should not have to skim the heads but you might have to mill the cylinders down to set piston height.

[Dan M]

I follow you now. I would agree, with the Hr Pistons you should not have to skim the heads but you might have to mill the cylinders down to set piston height.

 

Mike will supply thinner cylinder base gaskets for this purpose. Worked perfectly for me.

[tripletom]

ALdad, in answer to your OP, it sounds like you need maybe an updated map for your PCIII. I run similar on my Scura and it pulls nicely all the way through. It'd be nice to have more power, BUT I have already hit the limiter in top so I realise the gearing is going to limit me.

I'm a little unsure about all this talk of comparisons with Hayabusa's and the like, I had a few hours on a 01 ZX12R as it was a possible purchase before I bought the Guzzi. It was fast. Not just a little bit fast like a Fireblade, but really, really brain recalibratingly fast. 130mph in 3rd with the rear wheel spinning. Short-shifting from there got me to 160 as fast as my foot could move. Then a bend came up and I had to slow down. It would spin up the rear from just off idle in second exiting corners. You were constantly juggling the throttle to avoid being spat off in bends. That was why I went for the V11, more usable on the roads I ride. I'd still like a ZX12 though...just for the sheer craziness.

[dlaing]

Mike will supply thinner cylinder base gaskets for this purpose. Worked perfectly for me.

Did you measure the squish and set it to the alleged optimum 0.030" or close to it?

Greg Field said Stock Squish is often 2-3mm (~0.08-0.12")

If you have many miles on the cylinders, isn't milling the top of the cylinder or the head may be necessary to keep the rings sweeping over the same cylinder area and not having to sweep into virgin territory?

[dlaing]

ALdad, in answer to your OP, it sounds like you need maybe an updated map for your PCIII. I run similar on my Scura and it pulls nicely all the way through. It'd be nice to have more power, BUT I have already hit the limiter in top so I realise the gearing is going to limit me.

I'm a little unsure about all this talk of comparisons with Hayabusa's and the like, I had a few hours on a 01 ZX12R as it was a possible purchase before I bought the Guzzi. It was fast. Not just a little bit fast like a Fireblade, but really, really brain recalibratingly fast. 130mph in 3rd with the rear wheel spinning. Short-shifting from there got me to 160 as fast as my foot could move. Then a bend came up and I had to slow down. It would spin up the rear from just off idle in second exiting corners. You were constantly juggling the throttle to avoid being spat off in bends. That was why I went for the V11, more usable on the roads I ride. I'd still like a ZX12 though...just for the sheer craziness.

So, you are not interested in the best of both worlds with a 125-165HP Big Bore Guzzi?

My biggest concern (aside from the money to buy and install the kit) would be grabbing too much throttle coming out of turns.

[GuzziMoto]

Did you measure the squish and set it to the alleged optimum 0.030" or close to it?

Greg Field said Stock Squish is often 2-3mm (~0.08-0.12")

If you have many miles on the cylinders, isn't milling the top of the cylinder or the head may be necessary to keep the rings sweeping over the same cylinder area and not having to sweep into virgin territory?

Optimum squish is having the pistons come right up to the top of the cylinder(with the cylinder torqued down), 0 clearance. This is because the head gasket gives you the clearance for your squish. This may make some nervous but it works.

Milling the heads is an option but then you have to make sure you maintain valve to piston clearance. And the shape of Mike Rich's pistons is based, from what I've seen, on the original shape of the combustion chamber. Milling the heads will alter their relationship.

[tripletom]

So, you are not interested in the best of both worlds with a 125-165HP Big Bore Guzzi?

My biggest concern (aside from the money to buy and install the kit) would be grabbing too much throttle coming out of turns.

 

My Firestorm (VTR1000F) had 111rwhp and to have similar to that from the V11 would be nice. Enough to be usable in most situations. As I said though, I've hit the limiter in top so I can't help but feel the gearing would need to be altered, and then we're into spending even more...

[Tom M]

So, you are not interested in the best of both worlds with a 125-165HP Big Bore Guzzi?

My biggest concern (aside from the money to buy and install the kit) would be grabbing too much throttle coming out of turns.

 

I'd be more worried about fragging a drivetrain that wasn't designed for that much power, and the likely increased engine maintenance. The Bigbore that Guareschi races probably gets rebuilt on a regular basis.

[Dan M]

Did you measure the squish and set it to the alleged optimum 0.030" or close to it?

Greg Field said Stock Squish is often 2-3mm (~0.08-0.12")

If you have many miles on the cylinders, isn't milling the top of the cylinder or the head may be necessary to keep the rings sweeping over the same cylinder area and not having to sweep into virgin territory?

 

That is certianly true if you have a ring ridge. That's a lot of mileage on coated cylinders. My cylinders were clean with low mileage. I touched them up lightly with a ball hone just to break the glaze but not damage the coating. If I recall, (it's been more than a year) Mike specified piston flush to deck at TDC. It took thinner base gaskets to get there.

[dlaing]

I'd be more worried about fragging a drivetrain that wasn't designed for that much power, and the likely increased engine maintenance. The Bigbore that Guareschi races probably gets rebuilt on a regular basis.

I am concerned about those too, just more concerned about the other two things. I should put my concern on crashing above the initial investment cost.

I would not ride like Guareshci, so the bike would rarely see WOT. The torque load will be higher, and I would expect the clutch would take the brunt of that. I am not too worried about the six speed. I think they designed it to endure a lot more power, or at least the Guzziology author suggested that. But how much more, I cannot say. I think all my blown shifts have done more damage to it, then a more powerful engine would. But I am just guessing as nobody has tested a V11 gearbox with that much power, although Paul M has been riding his six speed bored out Quatrovalvole for quite a while.

Maybe he can chime in regarding how much it has damaged the six speed.

[Paul Minnaert]

Well, I've seen the inside when the spring broke, looked fine on first sight, but hadden't time to do a very good examination. No dramas anyway, and it shifts very light and good.