GuzziMoto Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Shows 25 degrees from vertical on mine , but you need a magnifying glass to read it. 25 degrees from vertical is what I thought the earlier frames were. Next question is are the later frames indeed 26 degrees or are they 25.5 degrees (or as Greg seems to be suggesting the same and the difference is in the clamps)? And has anyone actually measured theirs (while it's stock, once you start jacking up the rear and/or dropping the front it is gonna be different) to confirm that the published numbers are accurate? I know there is gonna be a plus or minus factor in there but I wonder how close their published numbers are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Field Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 According to all primary documentation I've seen, all the red frames are 25 degrees on the frame. But, as I've said before, the later red-frames have revised triple clamps that impart a 1/2 degree lazier rake. This is what makes them less twitchy red frames than the first red frames. As for the 26-degree rake on the LeMans frames, I've heard some of you say it but have yet to see primary documentation that this is so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Field Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I guess it was great horned demons who told you all your facts. SOP on this whacker forum . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagehenry Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I guess it was great horned demons who told you all your facts. SOP on this whacker forum . . . Out of this entire thread, I want to know... Wot's "SOP" Enquiring minds, well, you know... P.S. Ratch, where the HELL did you find all those baddass twitchy fricckken framed in red demonic photos? DEM may laugh, but photos MAY steal souls (and spontaneously alter trail)... ...and it ain't even close to winter fer most all y'all yet, by afar stretch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 "SOP" - Standard Operating Procedure Greg, is it possible to identify the triple clamps of a particular bike? Are the parts numbers visible? Maybe it's the "twisted triple clamp" bikes that are nervous? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Maybe it's the "twisted triple clamp" bikes that are nervous? Docc, FWIW, the Marz 040 fork triple clamps on your Sport and mine are parallel bored, according to the engineering drawing in the Guzzi service manual, with a 40.5 mm offset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Ratch, where the HELL did you find all those baddass twitchy fricckken framed in red demonic photos? DEM may laugh, but photos MAY steal souls (and spontaneously alter trail)... Oh I most certainly agree, SH. This is clearly no laughing matter. Amongst all of its many forms, the Extremely Twitchy Demon can actually be a real B!tch. . . Extremely Twitchy Twitch B!tch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Field Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I think I posted he frame number through which the early triple clamps were used. Use that as your guide as to whether or not your bike has them. Or how hard your steering damper is screwed on to make it "stable." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuzziMoto Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I am curious about this. I have a good bit of experience with bikes but have not seen a bike other then a cruiser use the clamps as a place to adjust the rake. It is not a normal thing and results in wonkey steering geometry. Where did you find this info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Field Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 It's in the parts books. It's in Guzziology. Edited to add that Guzzi has done this (revising geometry through use of revised triple clamps) before, most notably with the LeMans 1000 after some horrible crashes, and they also offered sidecar triple clamps for some of the other bikes. It's not unusual for Guzzi, which was one of the points of my original post on this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emry Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Itis routine in racing circles. Offset bearings are even available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuzziMoto Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Itis routine in racing circles. Offset bearings are even available. Offset bearings are a different thing. In racing you may change out the clamps for ones with a different offset but this has nothing to do with rake. It is about trail. Offset bearings are used to change the rake but they actually move the steering pivot. What Greg seems to be suggesting is different. He seems to be saying that they bored the holes in the clamps at an angle so that the fork tubes were not at the same angle as the steering stem. If this is not what he is saying them I'm sorry, I may be misunderstanding him. But if you change the rake "in the clamps" that is different to me then offsetting the steering stem (which is really just changing the steering head angle without the hassle of actually moving the steering head). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Field Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Offset bearings are a different thing. In racing you may change out the clamps for ones with a different offset but this has nothing to do with rake. It is about trail. Offset bearings are used to change the rake but they actually move the steering pivot. What Greg seems to be suggesting is different. He seems to be saying that they bored the holes in the clamps at an angle so that the fork tubes were not at the same angle as the steering stem. If this is not what he is saying them I'm sorry, I may be misunderstanding him. But if you change the rake "in the clamps" that is different to me then offsetting the steering stem (which is really just changing the steering head angle without the hassle of actually moving the steering head). Guzzimoto: You are understanding me correctly. The later triple clamps include a 1/2-degree of cant compared to the steering axis. These gray "canted" triple clamps were used through the end of the red-frames. In general, if your red-frame's forks have an axle nut, they also have the early non-"canted" clamps and if your red-frame has an axle that screws directly into the fork leg, it has the "canted" clamps. There is some crossover between axle-fixing arrangements and clamps, though, and Guzzi offered a kit of the "canted" clamps for people who wanted to reduce twitchiness of their early bikes, so any combination of parts is possible. Rosso Mandellos had black "canted" triple clamps. Starting with the LeMans, Guzzi again fitted non-"canted" clamps, but they were painted black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emry Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Offset bearings are a different thing. In racing you may change out the clamps for ones with a different offset but this has nothing to do with rake. It is about trail. Offset bearings are used to change the rake but they actually move the steering pivot. What Greg seems to be suggesting is different. He seems to be saying that they bored the holes in the clamps at an angle so that the fork tubes were not at the same angle as the steering stem. If this is not what he is saying them I'm sorry, I may be misunderstanding him. But if you change the rake "in the clamps" that is different to me then offsetting the steering stem (which is really just changing the steering head angle without the hassle of actually moving the steering head). Some change the rake with the clamps as Greg states. Changing rake on the clamps has a greater affect on trail than just altering the rake alone. Remeber trial is the difference between the point that the steering axis and the tires contact patch meet the ground. In racing changing the offset was a early solution to the increased rear ride height needed to get correct squat during acceleration. This also benefited of decreasing the rake, but often decreased trail to an unacceptable level, reducing the offset of the fork would remedy that. Some motorcycles already have a very good squat angle, raising the rear ride height can disturb this, adjustable rake & offset triple clamps can allow you to decrease the rake of the forks but still keep the trail accpetable, this quickens the initial steering input but will still maintain a acceptable amount of stability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Field Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 No need for twitchy demons when you have canted clamps. Who here still believes that Guzzi went to all that trouble only because of a journalist's criticism? Hatchetwhacker will, no doubt, but how 'bout the sane amongst you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now