jsciullo Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Here's a weird one. This has been happening for a number of years now. Sometimes - when I start my bike and turn the key to the start position - the headlamp light up. When I hit the starter the headlamp goes out - the bike starts but the headlamp & the tach do not work. The tach bounces around a little but doesnt go above 1K RPM. After about 20 mins the tach comes on and so does the headlamp. It usually stays on - sometimes, although rare the tach and headlamp shut off and comes on again latter in the ride. Its not usually an issue - unless its dark. What might be causing this? I've replaced relays numerous times and now have the Omicron??? Everything else on the bike works fine when the light/tach goes out. Any suggestions? Thanks, Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 The Starter Relay may be sticking in the closed position. I wouldn't expect this with OMRON, but it's one possibility. Did you get the sealed relays? Fuse 5 and its connections are also suspect. I suspect, with this, the horn will not blow nor will the brake light come on. Have a check on that last one and post back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsciullo Posted September 8, 2009 Author Share Posted September 8, 2009 DOc- You hit the nail on the head. I didnt notice that the brake lights or horn also didnt work. I dont know if the relay is sealed or not but it was onte OMRONs that were recommended from this list. I checked the condition of the #5 fuse and it looks fine but thats the extent of my electronic no-how. Any suggestions on what I should start checking? Remember now, Im a complete moron with electronics so use words that a moron should understand. Thanks, Jim The Starter Relay may be sticking in the closed position. I wouldn't expect this with OMRON, but it's one possibility. Did you get the sealed relays? Fuse 5 and its connections are also suspect. I suspect, with this, the horn will not blow nor will the brake light come on. Have a check on that last one and post back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 If I'm reading right, you're saying that the brake light and horns do not work? Also, when the key is turned on, there are no oil or battery indicator lamps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsciullo Posted September 10, 2009 Author Share Posted September 10, 2009 If I'm reading right, you're saying that the brake light and horns do not work? Also, when the key is turned on, there are no oil or battery indicator lamps? Correct. I took it for a ride a few mins ago and now the tach/headlamp/brakelights do not turn on at all. I have a PC3 hooked up to it now. Im going to remove it to see if that might be the culprit. Also, what relay would control the tach/headlamp/brakelights/horn? Im wondering if that might be a problem as well. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Jim, In the 'run' mode, power to these components flows through both the open Start Relay and the closed Headlight Relay as well as Fuse 5. In the 'start' mode, the Start Relay closes, simultaneously blocking power to the headlamp Relay and diverting 12V to the starter solenoid. No starting trouble ever? The starter never hesitates to engage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsciullo Posted September 10, 2009 Author Share Posted September 10, 2009 Jim, In the 'run' mode, power to these components flows through both the open Start Relay and the closed Headlight Relay as well as Fuse 5. In the 'start' mode, the Start Relay closes, simultaneously blocking power to the headlamp Relay and diverting 12V to the starter solenoid. No starting trouble ever? The starter never hesitates to engage? Doc- To anser your question, the starter always engages but I would classify it as a hard start. Sometimes several trys to get the bike to run without stalling but this bike has always been this way and always starts. I did a couple of things after my last message. I swapped out the 15A fuse for another - same problem. I unplugged the PC3 and same issue. Put the PC3 back in - same problem. I pulled the headlamp relay and replaced it with another relay- same result. Then I moved all the relays around and the lights/tach, etc... all came on worked for a 45 min ride perfectly. Just went down and checked and all is well. So I guess we can say the issue is somewhere within the relays. I dont know if its a bad relay or if by removing and reseating the relays some connection got reconnected or what. The relay tray (I dont know what its called but it holds all the relays) floats a bit and I did reach up under neith it to push the base of the tray and its wires tighter to the relays. Maybe I reconnected something. Given that everything now works I guess we can single out that the relay is NOT the cause. This has happened before where the bike runs fine for a while and then it goes back to this mode. Maybe something is comming loose under the relay tray? Any suggestions on where to look or how to test for a bad relay? Jim PS - Once this is fixed maybe we can move on to my constantly on Neutral light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Swap the starter relay with another, assuming your other relays are five pin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 It has been reported that the connectors under the relays can loosen up. At the very least, use a good contact cleaner on the relay blades and the connector blocks. Some have reported having to 'tighten up' some of the connections in the connector blocks. The seats of the early Sports tend to contact the relays and may affect their reliability. The under side of the seat can be relieved with a Dremel until no signs of contact remain. The neutral light stays on either because the neutral switch is stuck on or the wire to it is pinched. The switches can be cleaned and often function better in RedLine gear lube. Otherwise, thy are easy to replace. Having removed and replaced the starter or airbox could, potentially, trap the wire to the switch and short it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsciullo Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share Posted September 11, 2009 It has been reported that the connectors under the relays can loosen up. At the very least, use a good contact cleaner on the relay blades and the connector blocks. Some have reported having to 'tighten up' some of the connections in the connector blocks. The seats of the early Sports tend to contact the relays and may affect their reliability. The under side of the seat can be relieved with a Dremel until no signs of contact remain. The neutral light stays on either because the neutral switch is stuck on or the wire to it is pinched. The switches can be cleaned and often function better in RedLine gear lube. Otherwise, thy are easy to replace. Having removed and replaced the starter or airbox could, potentially, trap the wire to the switch and short it. Im going to take your advice and get some contact cleaner. as for the nuetral light it stays on up to around the 5k rpm mark then goes off. Its dim and flickers at the lower rpm and gets stronger as the rpms increase. It never goes to its full brightness however even when Im in neutral. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 What's the status on your battery? And your tach indication at idle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsciullo Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share Posted September 11, 2009 What's the status on your battery? And your tach indication at idle? The battery is new as of this spring and I fully charged it on Weds thinking that might be a problem. My tach at idle is around 1100 RPM. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Lots of the tachs read optimistically relative to what the ECU is seeing from the crank sensor,; often as much as 300-500 rpm. That could be giving you an idle of 600-800. The only way to know for sure is to cpmpare your tach reading to a software "dashboard" like Axone or VDSTS. In the meantime, she would probably be "happier" at a higher idle. Not that this would account for your "problem with the tach and headlight. That certainly smacks of a connection problem under the relays. How old is the gear oil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsciullo Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share Posted September 11, 2009 Lots of the tachs read optimistically relative to what the ECU is seeing from the crank sensor,; often as much as 300-500 rpm. That could be giving you an idle of 600-800. The only way to know for sure is to cpmpare your tach reading to a software "dashboard" like Axone or VDSTS. In the meantime, she would probably be "happier" at a higher idle. Not that this would account for your "problem with the tach and headlight. That certainly smacks of a connection problem under the relays. How old is the gear oil? About 10k miles or four years old. Time for replacement Im sure but the neutral light issue has been around since day one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Some have said the Redline solved the problem (I run "lightweight", but probably more guys use the "heavyweight." Others have had success just taking the switch out and cleaning it (it's under the starter). I had to replace mine at 54,000 miles. The change interval on the fluid is 6,000 miles, although I just ran my Redline twice that far. Surely (Shirley?), your 'box doesn't have the original fish oil? [i hesitate to even mention that you should avoid all manner of Australian Yak Fat, even if it 'claims' to be organic/synthetic/or an aphrodisiac. Do not rub it on any of your parts, or even your bike.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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