Simple Wiring Schematic

[raz]

I would also like to have it so the headlight doesn't come on as soon as you turn on the ignition.

 

Quick'n'dirty idea (I don't think this is an important function at all but I like playing with thoughts): Add low and high beam relays as has been described in various threads, but let the oil pressure sensor be the low beam relay coil's ground path.

 

Very important: Leave the high beam relay independant of same sensor in case it decides to give up at speed, in the dark...

 

Edit: I don't think I'd implement the above but I just realized there is a way to protect yourself from losing headlight due to relay failure. Just add diodes between the relay coil's positive side and the N.O. contact that goes to the bulb (later edit: can't have that diode together with pressure switch, see later post). This I will implement. I already have the relays.

 

EDIT: The previously posted pressure switch schematic will not work. The pressure switch is closed when we don't have oil pressure, so we'll have to invert it. See http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15686 for further discussion.

 

Oh, and remember there are always a hundred happy readers that won't thank you but use your schematics, for every one that does thank you. This is just how it is, on any forum. Good work, I have downloaded it and I will download any future versions, thank you!

[Kiwi_Roy]

Quick'n'dirty idea (I don't think this is an important function at all but I like playing with thoughts):

Raz,

That's very clever!!!!

Did you guys see that, he's using the Oil pressure switch so that the headlight doesn't come on until the engines running (the switch is left on low beam)

He's added the two diodes around the relays so that each beam has a backup supply, If the main fuse blows it feeds through the diode all be it a bit weaker.

My hats off to you Raz, I'm going to steal that idea.

I had already figured out how to bypass the start relay with the headlight feed

 

Roy

[raz]

Thanks. Unfortunately, I think we'd have to leave that extra diode off the low beam relay, right? Otherwise the pressure switch can't stop the low beam from going on because it will use the backup. I didn't realize until now. Personally I think I'll use both diodes but leave the pressure switch out of the circuit. My battery can power the headlight for an hour with power left to crank the engine.

 

I edited the picture in my previous post, removing the low beam diode.

 

For completeness, here's the same with no pressure switch:

 

Diodes must be rated 5 A or higher. For the new 12 V feed I used 1.5 mm² wires.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Raz,

I think your latest post is a good compromise, it is an easy upgrade, just one new wire from the battery and some simple wiring inside the headlamp.

I would say only one thing, you should use the same relays and fuses the rest of the bike.

You might also consider one of the self resetting circuit breakers instead of a fuse. (recover after an intermittent short)

If you loose F5 you will still loose all lights but it would be very easy to hot wire across to get you home.

I came up with a slightly different circuit using 2 relays and the oil switch. One relay used as a change over so it fails to Low Beam but I will try to stay focused on the wiring schematic.

BTW has anyone done a test to see how much voltage is lost between the battery and headlight on the existing system?

 

 

Regards

Roy

[raz]

I bought a complete set of GEI relays from PyroDan a couple of years ago and I ordered two extra for the lights. Most of the old Siemens relays are fine so I'll use one of them for the horns (which can be wired similar to one half of the headlight relay schematics, including a diode if you want but not the pressure switch ), haven't got around to that yet. One of the others I carry as a spare. Actually I used one of the existing fuses for the new feed, I think it was the horn relay. Mind you my Sporti is not wired exactly like the V11, I just picked a fuse with constant battery power and not much other load on it.

 

I use spade connectors to the relays instead of sourcing proper sockets, covered the lot with electrical tape and tucked it behind the headlight. I don't remember the original voltage drop but I remember it was a LOT. I relayed it and replaced bulb with a 60/55 high end bulb and it was literally a night and day difference, pun intended. Light transformed from weak yellow bicycle-like light to a proper beam more like my car's. I've had it for two or three seasons now with no problems.

 

You are right about the fuse but I don't think it's much needed. I do carry spare fuses, in fact I found you can tuck one spare between every two fuses in the OEM fuse block, at least on my bike.

 

Speaking of relays, one day my bike just died on me while overtaking a couple of cars. It put me in an awkward position but I managed to get to the roadside alive and start looking for the fault. It turned out the power relay had completely vibrated out of its socket. This after tens of thousands of kilometers with no such problems. The other four relays were still properly seated. I pushed it back and carried on. Weirdest thing, the whole scenario repeated (including me overtaking cars and the awkward position) within 150 kms on the same trip. Same relay had popped out again. And even weirder, it never happened again after that! The bike must have had vibrations in just the right harmonics that day. Anyway I ended up zip-tying the relays to their sockets. I think the proper fix is pinching the spade connectors inside the sockets, that is on my to-do list. Or maybe I should use hose clamps

[Kiwi_Roy]

Raz wrote

"I bought a complete set of GEI relays from PyroDan "

 

Roy wrote

"Another source of relays, I bought mine from www.Digikey.com

Omron G8HN-1C2T-R0DC12 $4.59 ea from (digikey part Z2247-ND)

They also have the Cherry microswitches for the clutch and brake levers Cherry DC1C-A1AA for $4.56 (digikey part CH290-ND)

I just bought an unsealed version of the switch from The Source (Canada's Radio Shack)" no doubt I will be replacing that again soon.

 

Sorry Raz, I keep getting the message quote messed up

Roy

[docc]

Roy, nice work! I'll have to spend a little time studying your result. Take this from a guy who rides with Carl's schematic in my tankbag!

The diode apparently developed from a problem with the previous generation ECU which would fail if the battery went below a certain voltage, not just that it's polarity might be reversed.

I also travel with this "flow chart" for quick and dirty diagnostics:


(revised 4-20-2010)

[emry]

Wow. This whole tread is just amazing. I spend most of my time teaching technicians who can not read a schematic, even though they should. But here we have indivduals who not only read schematics, but also draw their own troubleshooting charts and keep a copy on the bike!! Fantastic. My students need to start riding Guzzi, that will teach them.

 

Hats off to Cal and Roy and Raz. Also others if I forgot to mention you. You work is appricated by many even though few say thanks.

[raz]

For fault-finding purposes, maybe you should mention the crankshaft sensor. If it fails, you will still have the "priming" sound from the fuel pump, but when cranking, the pump will be dead (as will the sparks and injectors). This sensor is impossible to bodge fix: If it fails you are grounded, period. On the other hand it's not impossible to source as the same model is used in various cars.

 

This model sensor was used in all EFI Guzzis at least until the CARC ones (possibly they too use it). It's a Magneti Marelli SEN-8I3, also used in Alfa Romeo 145/146 1.4, Fiat Tempra 1.8 ie, Fiat Tipo 1.8 ie, Lancia Dedra 1.8 ie, Lancia Delta II 1.8 ie, Fiat p/n PDTS0032, 60810103, 64820168010, SEN8I3, SEB163, 7733001 yada yada.

 

You can measure it for resistance and a healthy one should be 680 ohms (± 10%) across two of its wires.

[savagehenry]

Wow. This whole tread is just amazing. I spend most of my time teaching technicians who can not read a schematic, even though they should. But here we have indivduals who not only read schematics, but also draw their own troubleshooting charts and keep a copy on the bike!! Fantastic. My students need to start riding Guzzi, that will teach them.

 

Hats off to Cal and Roy and Raz. Also others if I forgot to mention you. You work is appricated by many even though few say thanks.

More than +1, invaluable stuff to someone like me. Now, if you would do some sort of flow chart on the proceedure to both capture the smoke, AND put it back in those tube shaped sheaths, it would be greatly appreciated

[gstallons]

Wow. This whole tread is just amazing. I spend most of my time teaching technicians who can not read a schematic, even though they should. But here we have indivduals who not only read schematics, but also draw their own troubleshooting charts and keep a copy on the bike!! Fantastic. My students need to start riding Guzzi, that will teach them.

 

Hats off to Cal and Roy and Raz. Also others if I forgot to mention you. You work is appricated by many even though few say thanks.

 

 

That's why WE ride Moto Guzzi. My buddy said more professionals and tradesmen ride Guzzis than any other brand.... i love this site and enjoy communicating with all members on this site.

[Kiwi_Roy]

OK, heres the latest.

Not many changes to the schematic but have added a second sheet wiring layout which

shows the relays and fuse panel. I traced all this out on my bike, hopefully the orientation

is the same on others. I removed all fuses and relays and disconnected the battery +

while I tested for continuity etc. While doing so I found that my ignition switch is

inconsistent in Ohms reading sometimes as high as 60 Ohms so I suspect I will need

to look at that in the near future.

I think from the fuse base and relay bases you can verify much of the bikes wiring.

erratic readings point to loose connection or dirty contacts etc.

Regards

Roy

 

OOOPS, I left a wire off the coil of R5, that goes to pin 19 of the ECU

 

Attachments removed - the latest is at top of thread Roy May 18 2010

[Bjor]

A question a little on the side, Roy: how do you manage to make the charts look so professional?! With symbols for coils, fuses, etc.?

I have a Cali II with a mostly self made side car attached. The electrics here are of course rebuilt a lot, and it would have been nice to be able to replace all the hand-drawings I have made with something that looks as good and is as easy to follow as yours. If you don't mind, what programme do you use to make the charts?

[gstallons]

It sure beats my caveman drawings........

[Kiwi_Roy]

A question a little on the side, Roy: how do you manage to make the charts look so professional?! With symbols for coils, fuses, etc.?

What programme do you use to make the charts?

I use a Mac with a cheap drawing program EzDraw and just make my own symbols. The coils are a simple Belzier curve (I probably spelled that wrong), just one turn copied and pasted next to it. I haven't got proficient yet but doing these diagrams is helping for sure.

45+ years of looking at schematics helps also.

I have very little experience with the Guzzi having owned mine for

Any troubleshooting tips re the V11 would be appreciated

BTW the "Wiring Layout" needs a lot of work, I have red ink all over it already.

Regards

Roy