Battery terminals arc when connecting

[Trevini]

I'm wondering if an ignition switched relay on the reg/rec wiring to isolate it when switched off would be worth fitting?  Easy enough to wire up, but I don't know if it would cause any issues, though.

[gstallons]

Once this cap. is charged there will be no more current or voltage flow. There would be no reason to do this.

[Trevini]

If that's the case, why the constant 40.8 mA current draw (on my bike) with the reg connected and only 0.8 mA when it's not.  Surely, if no current or voltage is flowing, the battery wouldn't then discharge?

[Kiwi_Roy]

Trevini,

The new regulator my California II senses the Voltage after the ignition switch, the battery usually charges right up but occasionally it barely has enough to crank, I put this down to a dirty switch contact which ends up effecting the battery Voltage.

 

I intend to add a relay just as you suggest, a gold plated relay contact direct from the battery should be better than all the wiring and  ignition switch contact. 

[Trevini]

Thanks Roy.  Do you think it would be better to make/break the main live or main earth with the relay?  I think live due to the reg/rec not being able to find a supply from anywhere else.  If I switched the earth it could possibly find another through other circuits (maybe)  I already have a 30 amp fused switched relay fitted for something else, but could easily spec up the wiring for a 30 amp charge circuit.  The sensor wire for the relay is already switched as far as I can remember.

[Kiwi_Roy]

You said it is an RR451, here is the fitting instructions for that model

http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/acatalog/RR451.pdf

It shows the skinny brown Voltage sense wire as being switched by the ignition switch. I would be surprised to find it leaking, the brown wire is where the mA leak should go, it senses the battery Voltage.
The problem with the way they show it, if there is any Voltage lost in the wiring or ignition switch the regulator interprets that as low Voltage, it cranks up it's output to correct, overcharges the battery and or cooks itself, similar to what happened to the Ducati Energias

In this case I would have the brown wire connected to battery + through the relay, perhaps a small fuse so it's not effected by stray Voltage losses.

If your regulator has less wires, 2 yellows, a Red and a Black the relay contacts would go in the red as directly as possible.
You might also consider just having a master switch in the battery lead to disconnect it when not in use,

(not in the main fat wire to the starter though)

 

I may have miss-interpreted how the Electrex regulator works, Voltage sense in my book is the wire that measures the Voltage

[Trevini]

Roy

 

The plot thickens.  It turns out that I don't have an RR451, but an RR51 fitted to mine. I'm guessing it was either supplied in error or due to stock limitations.  

 

Fitting instructions here. Same reg/rec, but the difference is the voltage sense being internal from the large red wire directly connected to the battery because the brown wire has been omitted. The confusion has arisen because it says RR451 on the box it came in (just checked).  Mine was actually wired as per RR51 instructions.

 

What I have done this morning is fit a heavy duty relay on the positive feed to the reg/rec so it's disconnected when the ign is off.  Result - current drain down to 0.4mA and charge system working fine.  The voltage with the lights on is marginally better than when I measured it yesterday, but the battery hasn't been on the battery minder since yesterday, so the readings might be a little more accurate now.

 

The question now is how do Ducati wire that reg/rec up on their bikes?  Not having the separate sense wire and direct wiring would mean that the reg/rec is permanently live, so that would explain  the drain.  I'd have never even noticed had it not been for Andy asking the question and me checking for him!

[AndyH]

From what you describe Trev, I may also have an RR51. Better check, because I recall now that when I wired up I was confused by the lack of the sensor connection and took me a while to figure out what to do.

 

A relay on the ignition may be the elegant fix, because I have no complaints about the reg otherwise.

 

Something for next weekend I think. It'll take me abit more than a morning to sort I think. Out of curiosity I must ask what relay did you use and how did you mount it?

 

Andy

[Trevini]

I used a 12v 70A rated relay. I had one laying around in the van as I use them at work, but a search on ebay should find one for about £5-6. Mounting wise, I have it fitted in the void in the left side of the tail piece near the battery. Only a temporary cable tie fix until I have a little more time to make a proper clamp to the frame rail. I've left the bike off the battery minder and I'm working away all week, so we'll see how it starts next weekend.

 

I bought my reg/rec from Gutsibits a couple of years ago. Like you, no complaints with the reg and certainly not with the service from Gutsibits. They have always been excellent when I've used them. I dug out the fitting instructions that came with the reg. Hand written in the top corner it says RR 451, but printed next to it RR51. I also decked the website and the picture shows a reg/rec without sense wire, but description says it has one. I don't know if fitting the reg/tec with a sense wire would prevent the battery drain. I always put the drain down to the alarm, hence never questioning the battery discharging.

[Kiwi_Roy]

The relays as installed in V11 are rated at 60 Amps, they are a standard format used in lot's of autos, I saw a Jeep with them fitted the other day.

Just connect it with regular spade connectors, get the small ones for the coil at an auto parts store. Make a little clip to hold it by the case.

 

I suspect the RR51 has super-ceded the RR451 because of the problems with getting a stable reference.

 

 

Perhaps these new regulators with thei constant drain account for the popularity of battery tenders

I never bothered with my old Ducati Energia but then it didn't drain the battery like these new fangled ones

 

Moto Guzzi, making electricians out of riders for over 90 years

[AndyH]

Thanks Trev, Roy,

All makes eminent sense, and doable even for an amateur like me

Andy

[Trevini]

Quick update on mine.

 

Fired up like never before after sitting for a week and charge system perfect. 

[sculler2x]

I measured 700 micro amps to the regulator and 7 microamps to the computer.  This is hardly enough to warrent putting in a relay.  For long term storage just disconnect the battery.  An Odyssey is good for 2 years on the shelf.

[Kiwi_Roy]

I measured 700 micro amps to the regulator and 7 microamps to the computer.  This is hardly enough to warrent putting in a relay.  For long term storage just disconnect the battery.  An Odyssey is good for 2 years on the shelf.

I agree with you there, that's not enough to worry about.

Which regulator do you have?

 

So far we have

Sculler2x with  Electrosport ESR-515 0.7 mA

my Electrosport ESR-510 at 3 mA - direct connected with a charge light

Trevini's Electrex RR51 at 40.8

 

Just for fun I measured a brand new Ducati Energia, it draws ~21 mA at 13 Volts, but that's only while the key's On (headlight relay closed)

 

Anyone with a modern Guzzi with the direct connected regulator care to measure yours?

[sculler2x]

I have the Elecrtosport ESR-515