V11 Sport starter issue

[nudemetalz]

Heya,

 

Got an issue with the starting of my '02 V11 Sport.

It turns over very slowly initially, then if I give it another go, it might do the same, then eventually it will turn over at normal speed. This is cold or hot.

 

It's like a big radial off a Corsair or B-17 starting.

 

Is this just the solenoid needing cleaning and regreasing? The V11 had been sitting for quite a while with just occasional starts.

The gel battery is fully charged and in good condition.

 

Whatcha think?

 

[luhbo]

Try starting a few times and then check the temperature of the starter at the rear end. If it's hot, might be very hot even,then  probably the magnets inside the pole tube have come loose. To me it sounds like this, and it's not an uncommon problem. You can remove the cap at the rear end and look at the brushes. If the magnets are broken you should already see particles of them coming out.

Over here, where Valeo starters are common, replacement pole tubes, brushes and brush holders are easily sourceable. Don't know about NZ. You could check Beemer forums, too, by the way.

 

Hubert

[nudemetalz]

Great thanks for the heads-up, Hubert.

 

I'll give that a go.

 

 

Chris

[cola]

Yup!  I had this problem recently on my '02 Le Mans.  I spent a fair amount of time cleaning through all the contacts in the starter circuit as i was convinced it was just a voltage drop due to cold, wet Scotland.  Eventually the bike failed to start.  Took the starter motor off and split it - the insides were a mess and the magnets had come off the casing.  I replaced it with a whole new starter but keep meaning to rebuold the old one 'just in case'

[gstallons]

Yup!  I had this problem recently on my '02 Le Mans.  I spent a fair amount of time cleaning through all the contacts in the starter circuit as i was convinced it was just a voltage drop due to cold, wet Scotland.  Eventually the bike failed to start.  Took the starter motor off and split it - the insides were a mess and the magnets had come off the casing.  I replaced it with a whole new starter but keep meaning to rebuold the old one 'just in case'

If the magnets have come loose from the case , put the starter in a box and keep it for when something fails in the ( if it is the same) new starter.

[Batt57]

Mine started doing the exact same thing until it finally failed to start altogether. Any suggestions on a replacement starter? Valeo or Bosch?

[Batt57]

What about this?

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=36793.msg553740#msg553740

[Kiwi_Roy]

I did a schematic a while back and somewhere have a bunch of pictures. As an apprentice we overhauled lots of starters and generators for our workmates, mainly old Brit cars. It was quite a surprise to open a Valeo and find a shunt motor with gearbox, the Bosch is a series and more conventional.

I help a lot of guys on a different forum with Startus Interuptus issues caused by too much resistance in the solenoid wiring, It would like to draw 50 Amps through the start relay.

 

Nudemetalz wrote "It's like a big radial off a Corsair or B-17 starting" 

This is because the Valeo is a fairly constant speed (shunt-like) motor, as it speeds up the field causes it to generate a Voltage opposing the battery so it reaches a maximum speed, it also has a reduction gearbox to get enough torque.

The Bosch (series motor) speeds up, the current thru the field drops, it doesn't generate so much and gets even faster. In theory a series motor unloaded will wind up until it flys to bits.

In earlier days railway locomotives used series motors because of the high torque and speed characteristics.

Valeo Starter.pdf

Bosch Starter.pdf

[gstallons]

I need to meet you to find out how much you know and discover how much I don't .

[nudemetalz]

Thanks so much for all of the info.

 

Another thing I've just discovered is that the battery I have in the V11 is a MotoBatt MBTX12U.

I see that the recommended is a MBTX30U. Would that have made much difference?

I haven't used the bike much in the last year or so, it would get up to 6 weeks without being cranked over sometimes.

 

Just wondering if it really is the starter or whether my battery, so going to get the battery tested.

[docc]

nm, can you post voltages from your battery 1) key on, 2) cranking 3) at idle and 4) at some rpm, say 2500?