Charging Issues With Electrosport ESR510

[moto fugazzi]

Here's the wires that went to the battery:

 

[Kiwi_Roy]

Loose Connection.

You will need to cut the wires back and use new bullet connectors.

No wonder you were down on Voltage.

[moto fugazzi]

Connections were tight. I checked them several times, and I've read that people have had the 30 amp fuses blow, and connecters melted. With the stock regulator in place, charging is better than the ESR510, and I don't have that annoying warning light go on whenever the RPM's drop under 3K.

Ken

[Kiwi_Roy]

Sorry, that's a classic sign of a high resistance joint, somethings loose there, perhaps the wires aren't crimped properly.

You will need to change the connectors or your Ducati will go the same way.

The 30 Amp fuses sometimes melt (not blow) for the same reason, a loose clip.

 

Bullet connectors aren't the best method of joining two wires, that's why you don't see them so much anymore, the spade type seem to stand up better.

[moto fugazzi]

Thanks for the tip, Roy. I only used bullet connectors because that's what Electrosport had on the end of the R/R. The ends I put on the other wires were well crimped and soldered. I used to work for a loudspeaker factory years ago making wiring harnesses (I've literally crimped thousands of connectors during my 12 years there). I even used heavier gauge wire than what was attached to the ESR510. My guess at this point is that the bullet connectors couldn't handle the current flow. I really like the materials used were the error rather than my work. I hope I don't sound too arrogant with that statement, but if there's anything I can do well, it's electrical connectors and soldering.

I did clean all of the connections again for the Ducati R/R, but I'll keep an eye on it anyway. Perhaps I'll pick up some new high power waterproof connectors and try again with the ESR over winter.

Ken

[luhbo]

For aftermarket bullet connectors I'd choose something like this.

The problem is that you can't crimp them, and soldering connectors is not a good idea in this context. At least those gold connectors were strong enough for the expected load.

 

Hubert

 

BTW: You either crimp or solder, crimping and soldering makes the connection worse, not better.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Sorry, I wasn't questioning your ability to make a good joint, looking again at the photo you posted it's obvious that the heating took place right at the end where the bullet connector makes contact with the socket.

 

The current pulses from a Ducati regulator are well over 30 Amps

 

When I asked Electrosport how their regulator worked they hinted that it's a shunt type, from that I concluded the regulator shorts out the alternator similar to most 3 phase ones. The current spikes may be extremely high.

 

This resistance is probably why your battery Voltage was down, the regulator was seeing a higher Voltage than the battery and cutting back too soon.

 

Perhaps just use crimp links instead of connectors, they will take all the current the alternator can put out.

 

BTW I would alert Electrosport about this problem, I'm sure they will want to fix it

[luhbo]

The two connectors in question are behind the regulator, so all the shorting or not shorting regulator type questioning could be a typical 'Other Connectors' Problem'. 

Also I'd guess that a power loss at this position, between output and reference input, will cause the regulator to boost up its output to reach the voltage level it's waiting for.

Besides all that I still think that sticking to a product coming from a company like Ducati Energia, which have a lot of experience also in the Automotive Business, is not the worst idea. They sell this product in huge quantities to most if not all the european bike and scooter companies, BMW included.

 

Hubert

[Kiwi_Roy]

The two connectors in question are behind the regulator, so all the shorting or not shorting regulator type questioning could be a typical 'Other Connectors' Problem'. 

Hubert

Yes, I realized that, I was going to edit but you beat me to it 

 

No, the regulator doesn't measure the battery Voltage directly, it measures the Voltage between the red and green wires, the battery can be lower than that point because of the bad connection. Actually without a schematic it's only a guess as to how and when it senses the Voltage.

 

I like the Ducatti Energia, it's the way it's installed in the Guzzi that's the problem.

The battery Voltage reference is downstream of the headlight relay at a point normally about 1/2 Volt less than the battery.

If there is any additional Voltage drop say bad relay base contacts or larger headlight bulb the Voltage drop is higher so the regulator turns on longer until it cooks (usually melts one of the diode leads).

If you add after market headlight relays that bypass the normal headlight relay now the regulator sees the true battery Voltage and cuts off earlier.

Also the grounding provided left a lot to be desired.

 

I put a new Ducati on my V11 EV but took great care to make sure the wiring was in tip-top shape.

 

The regulators on the modern Guzzis connect directly to the battery, The Electrosport shows this also but the wires they provided are too short to reach, the logical thing to do is cut the ring connectors off and add bullets.

http://www.electrosport.com/technical-resources/library/fitting-instructions/electrosport-esr510-fitting-instructions.pdf

 

I mounted mine under the tank and extended the yellow wires, even so I had to extend the Red & Green a little bit to reach the battery.

 

Update:

The ESR510 comes with different connection options.

[luhbo]

... No, the regulator doesn't measure the battery Voltage directly, it measures the Voltage between the red and green wires, ..

That's another weak point of this unit, isn't it?

 

Hubert

[The Monkey]

I installed an electrosport direct connection (battery) regulator and it has been working just fine. Having struggled with the regulator issue with the V11 for several years I was relieved to have found a reliable working unit at last.

Kiwi Roy and Luhbo in this to and fro have explained most if not all the reasons for the struggle relating to the regulator. It, in stock format is a bizarre application, giving credence to the historic vagaries and frustrations of Italian electronic design.

 

Thanks and respect to the both of you for giving us all something to deposit into our personal Guzzi Banks.

[moto fugazzi]

I finally sent in my ESR510 unit to Electrosport, and received a new one in the mail yesterday. I have a brand new unit, and it looks very different from the one I purchased last year. When I contacted them yesterday, they told me the one I sent in was an obsolete version of the ESR510, and the new one should solve any issues I was having. The downside is that I won't be able to try it out until next spring.

 

The new ESR510 is about the same size as the stock MG unit and has the connections with the exception of the extra wires that go to the battery and the 30A inline fuse.

 

The original ESR510 had bullet connectors for the Volt warning light (not the stock 2 wire connector) and no inline fuse on positive battery connection.

 

Ken

[moto fugazzi]

So, after using the new replacement ESR510 for a couple of months, the fuse and fuse holder melted together, drained my battery, and left me stranded for a short bit. The part that pisses me off is the fact that the charge warning light never went on while the battery was draining (it does light when I turn on the ignition, then turns off after the bike starts). According to my voltmeter, I was at 10.1V when I pulled into the gas station and I was hoping they had an outside outlet that I could plug my charger into. 

 

Since the fuse holder was so melted, I decided to install the original energia RR, and give that a go again. Oddly enough, my charge light doesn't come on when I turn on the ignition and start the bike. The battery was still low from my previous episode, and I thought it would come on for sure. I then connected the ESR510, and the charge light immediately went on when I turned on the ignition. I connected the factory RR, and the light still doesn't turn on. What gives?

 

2 questions here:

I've read a few threads here about people having blown fuses with these. What was done to rectify the issue?

Why doesn't my charge light come on with the factory RR installed? It did before I put in the ESR510, and all wires are properly connected. Is there a way to test the RR for this feature?

Ken

 

Here's a pic of the fuse holder. The fuse was just a glob of green plastic, and when I finally pried it out with a pliers, I threw it as far as I could out of frustration.

[docc]

Original size "ATC" fuse but in an external holder?

[moto fugazzi]

Original size "ATC" fuse but in an external holder?

Yes, that's how it came from Electrosport. After looking at their website just now, I think the proper RR may be the ESR 515, and it doesn't have a fuse, and they're out of stock on them. 

Ken