antonio carroccio Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 How did your purchase work out. are you happy with your bike and dealer experince? Sorry??? Are you talking to me??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest callithrix Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 I was asking Aquila, if I recall he was purchasing a V11 naked from Orange County. Did I misread the post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_roethlisberger Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 The old Stucchi look likes the draw here under. Collectors ↑ ╞╡ ↓ Mufflers Probably you have now the cross like a X. That’s the Stucchi now in commerce. I do not know witch of those two is better. I only know that the mine works well. I have got the sound I always want and the performance of mine V11 is optimal. Just perfect! Ahh, you have an "H" pipe version.... hrmm, very interesting as I didn't realize Stucchi made an "H" version. Generally I see this design on the cruiser applications. As to which is best.... "X" or "H"... good question Based upon the Mistral(H) and Stucchi(X) crossover performance and anecdotal feedback we've seen, I can only speculate on the two Stucchi models... Mistral(H) = Improved top end, sacrifices some low/mid range Stucci(X) = Improved mid-range, potentially small top-end loss Forum Mistral Stucchi Thread But many people have either, and are very happy. About the PowercommanderIII. It is not good!!! Not Good!!! Listen to me!!! PCIII can not determine the moment to inject the fuel on the heads. Like you said, the temperature of the ambient or the temperature of the engine (oil) has influence for the quantity of fuel to be injected in the heads. PCIII can not think! ECU Marelli can! Perhaps you are thinking more of the old PCII?? If you talk to someone like Todd Eagan at www.guzzitech.com you'll find that the PCIII can do more than you think. You are certainly welcome to your opinion, but all I can say is that there are many Guzzi owners(and other makes/models) on this forum and elsewhere that have used the PCIII with excellent results ....even after having their ECU "optimized" via the very reputable dealers like Moto International, et al This is certainly my experience. Is it for you a solution to send the ECU in Europe and let him remapping? Try at Ruud Fedriks, Holland. Nice guy. He did it to me! Piece of work!!! http://www.xs4all.nl/~dynojet/contact.htm ciao As I mentioned, I am very pleased to hear that you have someone local that can tune the 15M well. That's great Unfortunately though, I just don't see how he(or anyone else for that matter) could effectively tune the ECU without the rest of the bike present, and on a dyno with gas analyzer If I sent him just my ECU, I don't see how he could take into account my various modifications such as head porting, dual sparkplugs, crossover, exhaust, etc... he would just have to "guess". Anyway, I'm simply saying that sending the ECU to your tuner wouldn't for me seem to be a very effective solution, and hence would prefer someone local. But not having someone local that is an expert in tuning the 15M(which many of us do not), using a PCIII is a great alternative as there are lots of DynoJet Certified Tuning Centers that can put the whole bike on a dyno with a gas analyzer to tune the fuel mixture. As always YMMV, but the PCIII has worked well for me and many others al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John T Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 About the PowercommanderIII. It is not good!!! Not Good!!! Listen to me!!! PCIII can not determine the moment to inject the fuel on the heads. Like you said, the temperature of the ambient or the temperature of the engine (oil) has influence for the quantity of fuel to be injected in the heads. PCIII can not think! ECU Marelli can! Completely wrong! The PCIII simply corrects per the ECU's "adjustments". In other words, if the ECU is making corrections for altitude, temp etc, the PCIII is following these adjustments and correcting them as needed from the (hopefully) custom map you had made. The Marelli unit is not that smart. It has limited adjustments for the conditions you suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquila Posted February 25, 2004 Author Share Posted February 25, 2004 I was asking Aquila, if I recall he was purchasing a V11 naked from Orange County. Did I misread the post? I'm picking up the bike on Friday, so I'll let you know how it all goes... They've been very cool to deal with so far. jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 About the PowercommanderIII. It is not good!!! Not Good!!! Listen to me!!! PCIII can not determine the moment to inject the fuel on the heads. Like you said, the temperature of the ambient or the temperature of the engine (oil) has influence for the quantity of fuel to be injected in the heads. PCIII can not think! ECU Marelli can! Completely wrong! The PCIII simply corrects per the ECU's "adjustments". In other words, if the ECU is making corrections for altitude, temp etc, the PCIII is following these adjustments and correcting them as needed from the (hopefully) custom map you had made. The Marelli unit is not that smart. It has limited adjustments for the conditions you suggest. The power ccrappers operate buy adjusting the duration of the orginal ECU's fuel pulse. The top of the line modes also have an ablity to adjust the timing. Remebering that fuel injectors vary the rate of fuel buy thier duration no how far they open thats fixed. Compared to the power commanders the Webber marrelli is a much more sophiscated unit however wbber marelli is usally not end user adjustable partly because of emission laws that same reason the power cammander seems to give a good gain. Whilst I have yet to open a power commander I would suggest there is around 70euro at most of electronic compnets insode the power commanders they are a pretty basic unit and for the purchase price and factor in a custom map you are very seriously in the territory of complete replacment ECU's. There is a gentlman in australi that has designed a complete replacement ECU specifically with Guzzi's in mind and sells it for a very modest price. WM16 replacement . Power commanders are popular because they are conviniate but they have a fairly limited range of operation and thier mapping is pretty crude and usally doesn't differentiate between different cylinders etc etc. There is a large aftermarket industry around for modern cars that offer some very sophisticated products. Dyno Jet (the people that make power commander) are pretty cagey about whats inside thier unit and how it works but the best analogy I can come up with is its like fitting a amal in addition to flatslide FCR's in order to get the FCR's tuned correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_roethlisberger Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Cliff's My16M unfortunately is still "officially" only a 16M ECU replacement, and that's not what is used on our V11 bikes..... although he is working with Carl Allison for applying the My16M ECU to our 15M bikes. One of the big hurdles was finding the special application connector on the 15M. We have tried to source it from AMP, etc... but it had been difficult. I think Cliff did end up a with a few and was trying to get it adapted. He checks in this forum so maybe he or Carl can chime-in on that status. Another advantage is that the My16M can run closed-loop. Of course to really dial it in, one would still need a gaz-analyzer and dyno. In regard to the PCIII, I don't think anyone has maintained that it is a brainiac But for many people, it has proven very effective, and in the end that's what matters al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John T Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 PCIII usb allowes for individual cylinder mapping. I don't care if they are "crude", with a custom map they work perfect. They do allow enough adjustement to compensate for some pretty worked on motors. My maps are nowhere near the maximum allowed. What you need for best results is a good dyno session and a map made for your bike. "seat of the pants" won't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonio carroccio Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Sorry guys, but I only can give you an answer today, because here in Holland is now daylight. I get the point! The PCIII is an alternative. What about the ECU from Guzzi? Why can you buy that thing and put it on you bike without adjustment. Second them (Mother Guzzi) is this possible. You get that right about the remapping the ECU. You need the bike to remap the ECU. ...But not in all circumstance.... Well, if you are interested I can sell you an original Racing ECU Guzzi from Mandello del Lario. P.S. The H has two pipes with two different diameters. ciao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_roethlisberger Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Sorry guys, but I only can give you an answer today, because here in Holland is now daylight. I get the point! The PCIII is an alternative. What about the ECU from Guzzi? Why can you buy that thing and put it on you bike without adjustment. Second them (Mother Guzzi) is this possible. You get that right about the remapping the ECU. You need the bike to remap the ECU. ...But not in all circumstance.... Well, if you are interested I can sell you an original Racing ECU Guzzi from Mandello del Lario. P.S. The H has two pipes with two different diameters. ciao Hrmm, just to double-check, are you sure yours is actually a Stucchi crossover then?? I only ask because the Mistral "H" crossover has the same two different diameter pipes at the "H" cross-bar as you describe. If you are interested in double-checking, you can go to the Forum homepage and click on our sponsor Mistral link, and under V11 products, they have a photo of their crossover. In regard to the Guzzi ECU.... I can't put it on my bike "without adjustment". Not with all of my modifications. That's the problem, and why the PCIII is so attractive for many. Now, if the ECU were "closed loop" then it would certainly be much less of an issue, and the ECU would be much more "plug and play" as theoretically it could adjust automatically for changes in the intake and exhaust system through it's O2 sensor. But alas, our system is open loop, and the ECU has no idea what is happening with the actual engine and fuel mixture other than atmospheric ambient temp, and head temperature. Beyond that, it relies on it's static fuel/air map, and assumes nothing has changed on the bike it was programmed/mapped for. Of course, this is also true of the PCIII, and why it needs a tuning center with a dyno and gas analyzer... it not really an issue of "superiority" but more an issue of convenience and applicability. Look, in the end.... the ECU and PCIII are probably both "equal" if one has access to a tuner than can have access to the actual bike and is adept at "dialing in" either well. And in that regard, if I could get the degree of fine tuning on the ECU for my bike as I can with a PCIII, I probably would just use the 15M by itself as you suggest... after all, that is a simpler solution, and I am an advocate of the KISS principle But for now, for many of us, we don't have access to such a tuner adept at tweaking the ECU, so the PCIII is our only alternative for now. al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John T Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 I get the point! The PCIII is an alternative. What about the ECU from Guzzi? ciao The ECU from Guzzi is simply a stock ECU that has been re-mapped to take care of the flat spot at 4000 rpm and it richens up the mixture to compensate for the freer flowing Titanium exhaust. The fact that it now will not pass regulations for emissions and noise gives it the "race only" or 'Off road only" status. It works well, but only with that setup. If you do any more modifications like crossover, headwork, cams and such, it will not work well and you will still need to alter the mixture with a PCIII. So do the math. $1000 for the guzzi setup that may need a PCIII if you do mods or just do the PCIII and slip ons, and you have a much more flexible, and tunable sstem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonio carroccio Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Now it goes too far. I have neat told that the ECU with remapping best works. The PCIII only do not works usual. Firstly the ECU remapping and then the PCIII as an addition. The adaptation of the ECU is strict necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldini Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 The ECU from Guzzi is simply a stock ECU that has been re-mapped to take care of the flat spot at 4000 rpm and it richens up the mixture to compensate for the freer flowing Titanium exhaust. Does the Guzzi ECU/Ti pipe kit on it's own fill in the 4k rpm flat spot on an 02 bike? Will it pull cleaner thru the rev range? Does it gain torque/power? where? Is the effect of this kit more noticeable on the earlier bikes? Antonio are you saying that this ECU will cope better with further mods than the std ECU? with or without the addition of a PC111? Electricity - what is it? Where am I? Where do I come from? Where am I going? KB, Cymru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MotoMessiah Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 I was asking Aquila, if I recall he was purchasing a V11 naked from Orange County. Did I misread the post? I'm picking up the bike on Friday, so I'll let you know how it all goes... They've been very cool to deal with so far. jay I'll be curious to know how it goes as well. I'm finally ready to purchase and I've seen Orange county's ads for the V11 sport. Great price. And let me know if there's any left as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquila Posted March 1, 2004 Author Share Posted March 1, 2004 I'll be curious to know how it goes as well. I'm finally ready to purchase and I've seen Orange county's ads for the V11 sport. Great price. And let me know if there's any left as well... Picked up the Bike on saturday morning. I had them install the MG Ti Race pipes and Stucchi crossover- Runs excellent so far- I put my first 35 miles on it that day. The Service Mgr said I could add a PCIII later for even more power. They were very cool to deal with, he installed all parts and charges no labor, took a few bucks off the parts, and threw in a few freebies! They do not have many 03 Sports left at that proce- He said they've sold 75 or so!!!! Curiously, my bike was built in 2/02, but its MSO'd as on 03... Thats a REAL early 03. Still, I'm digging it so far! jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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