Mr. Bean Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Hello all, looking for a bit of advice from all you experienced Guzzi owners...especially anyone with an 04 V11. I'm still getting to know my new Ballabio including reading some of the maintenance procedures on it from the service manual and parts manual. I quickly found what appears to be a major departure from past year models when I got to the procedure on removing the tank. Unless I'm being thicker than the offspring of the village idiot and tv weather girl...My bike does not seam to have either a fuel petcock or pressure regulator Logic dictates that since its fuel injected it MUST have at least the pressure regulator, and I'm assuming that it is the item in the photo below. This is under the tank immediately above the TPS. I compared my bike to pictures I found online of other year model V11's and there is definitely no petcock on the left side and the pressure regulator does not stick down below the tank on the right side as in the manual or pictures I could find. If this is so, does this bike have a fuel petcock somewhere and if not, are the two connectors to what appears to be the new pressure regulator quick disconnects of some type? I have not seen connectors like these and don't just want to start pulling or twisting on them. Incidently I did find the electrical connector to the fuel level sensor a few inches forward of these connectors. Did MG just clean everything up and make it so you only have to disconnect stuff on one side of the tank? Any ideas appreciated! Thanks, Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mik Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 I'll hazard a guess..those look like quick disconnects for the fuel line(s). Similar to those on my English motorcycle. Be careful, they usually don't take well to rough handling (plastic you know). I have the same system on my 03 LeMans. I'm not sure where the pressure regulator may be as I don't own a shop manual cuz I don't think there are any for these models yet...maybe someone else could tell the both of us? I don't believe that there is any fuel shut off..the quick disconnects have check valves in them I think. Remember, there are no dumb questions.. but I couldn't guarantee my answer...sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_roethlisberger Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 As of 2003(late 2002 Europe) the fuel pump/regulator was incorporated into the tank on the V11 Sport varieties. So yes, on your bike, a 2004, you do not have the older style external petcock and pressure regulator that is apparently illustrated in the technical documentation you are referencing. The photo of the connections you provided are indeed the quick connects Guzzi is now using with the newer in-tank fuel-pump kit As an aside, if it were my bike, I'd be a bit concerned about the unprotected wires as they pass into the pump plate/assembly in your photo. I would put some sort of protection around them to ward off any insulation failure due to vibration/abrasion Hope that helps al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Dave Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 I've got a similar setup on my '03 EV Touring. It's interesting that on my '02 Le Mans, the fuel is returned to the tank via the pressure regulator, whereas this latter design with the fuel pump in the tank doesn't have a fuel return. This implies that the pressure regulator resides in the tank (perhaps as part of the pump) and regulates the feed line to the injectors (since it is the only fuel line available). Rather than returning the fuel to the tank in the older design, I'm wondering if there is a pressure regulator available that simply shuts off when the pressure exceeds the prescribed amount? If available, then I'm speculating the return feed to the tank could be dispensed with, providing another outlet for the RHS of the tank and that elusive remaining fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_roethlisberger Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 I've got a similar setup on my '03 EV Touring. It's interesting that on my '02 Le Mans, the fuel is returned to the tank via the pressure regulator, whereas this latter design with the fuel pump in the tank doesn't have a fuel return. This implies that the pressure regulator resides in the tank (perhaps as part of the pump) and regulates the feed line to the injectors (since it is the only fuel line available). Rather than returning the fuel to the tank in the older design, I'm wondering if there is a pressure regulator available that simply shuts off when the pressure exceeds the prescribed amount? If available, then I'm speculating the return feed to the tank could be dispensed with, providing another outlet for the RHS of the tank and that elusive remaining fuel. From the photo above, there are two lines on the late-model in-tank bikes, but since I haven't looked closely at one, I can only assume that there is still a fuel "loop" on these bikes. It's easy enough to check. Just look the injectors, and if they have a "tee" fitting with one end going to the tank(pump) and the other end is connected to the other injector via fuel line, then you do indeed have a "return" line to the tank. It's just one of the two in the photo. But I suspect there is indeed a fuel "loop" on the newer models as well, as otherwise the fuel would sit in the lines and heat up... potentially causting vapor lock problems. And yes, since there's not one externally, it appears that the pressure regulator is somehow integrated with the in-tank pump. But to your question, and to my comment above... although there may be a pressure regulation/pump system that could do what you describe, I'm not sure that there would be much of a benefit, plus it would keep the fuel static in the lines, increasing the risk of overheating and vapor lock. al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Bean Posted March 2, 2004 Author Share Posted March 2, 2004 Thanks for the information all, Al, I will take your advice and put some protection on those wires. Maybe some silicone up in there to keep them from moving around. I agree that the quick disconnects look rather flimsy...any ideas on how to correctly disconnect them? I don't want to break them by doing something wrong. Does the grey part slide backward releasing the hose forward? Thanks again, Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bento Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 for a dumb question, that just sailed right over my head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Dave Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 But I suspect there is indeed a fuel "loop" on the newer models as well, as otherwise the fuel would sit in the lines and heat up... potentially causting vapor lock problems Al, your comments intriged me, so I whipped off the tank for a looksee. There is only one fuel connection to the tank (not some sort of fancy coaxial dual fitting), that is connected to a Y-junction, and then to the injectors. The only other pipe connecting to the tank is a breather right in the center. Certainly cleans up the plumbing compared with other models I own(ed). But this investigation is now making me wonder where my fuel filter is hiding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Bean Posted March 2, 2004 Author Share Posted March 2, 2004 for a dumb question, that just sailed right over my head I gotta admit I don't feel so bad now! I was figuring I would get about 15 replies "uhh..that thing right in front of you that says fuel petcock on it is the fuel petcock..." or something similar. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_roethlisberger Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 But I suspect there is indeed a fuel "loop" on the newer models as well, as otherwise the fuel would sit in the lines and heat up... potentially causting vapor lock problems Al, your comments intriged me, so I whipped off the tank for a looksee. There is only one fuel connection to the tank (not some sort of fancy coaxial dual fitting), that is connected to a Y-junction, and then to the injectors. The only other pipe connecting to the tank is a breather right in the center. Certainly cleans up the plumbing compared with other models I own(ed). But this investigation is now making me wonder where my fuel filter is hiding? Now this has me confused... Does your setup look like Randy's photo above? I ask because the one on Randy's bike(and other 2003's I've seen, but not looked closely) clearly have two fuel lines going into the tank via quick-connectors. Are you saying that there is only one line on your version? Also, can you(and Randy, or other 2003+ owners) confirm that there is or is not a fuel line also running from one injector to the other(connecting them together) as on the 2002 and earlier bikes. If so, along with a second line going into the tank, this would create the fuel loop. If there is not a connection between the injectors, and either: 1) Two lines exit the tank and each terminate at each injector or 2) One line exits the tank, and has a "Y" fittig splitting output to each injector ...then there is no external fuel loop, and fuel pressure is being regulated and returned to the tank internally. In this case, I suppose it is possible that the injectors don't have to have fuel flowing past them in a loop, and instead have a pressure regulator in-line before them(in this case in the tank) maintaining the correct pressure. The only risk here in my opinion is still the issue of fuel heating. Although I've heard of no VL issues on the new bikes, so maybe it's a non-issue This really isn't a big deal, but I'm just curious how the 2003+ bikes are setup, AND if in typical Guzzi fashion, even these bikes don't have consistently identical implementations al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Dave Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 Al, I can confirm that there is only one line from the tank to the Y, then to the injectors. Just come back from the agents to order a replacement plastic coupler for the fuel line to the tank (it looks rather fagile, and as I expected, there's none in the country), so I saw the exploded diagram on their screen. I hear you regarding vapour lock, but it's something I've never experienced, even on my '02 Le Mans (fuel pump at the front of the motor version). Mind you, temperatures here in Kiwiland don't get as drastic as I've experienced in the Mojave desert so that might be why. Incidently, there's only two cables connected to the tank, too. I'm reasoning one for the fuel level sensor, one for the pump. So perhaps there's no petcock at all, the pump sorta acting as one, with no volts supplied. Some fuel does escape when the tank was disconnected, enough for me to place a short piece of hose temporarily on the outlet to contain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_roethlisberger Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 Wow, that is really interesting Dave.... it seems that Guzzi once again has multiple solutions in just a couple years *sigh* Not surprising I wonder why some bikes like Randy's had more than one fuel line coming out? Odd. al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 I just looked at two 2003 Guzzis at Moto Guzzi -Nashville. I was impressed by the tidy set-up with the in-tank pump. There were two fuel lines into it , presumably for feed and return . There were no implements on the left side of the tank. Evidently, the pump, regulator and low fuel sender are in the right side uniit. Very clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_roethlisberger Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 Excellent, thanks for checking into that and reporting Docc It seems that either/or 2003 and 2004 bikes, or USA/Euro/Aus bikes have slightly different setups with one or two fuel lines leaving the pump to the injectors. It would be good to sort this out more clearly(if possible with Moto Guzzi ) so we can update the FAQ for the newer bikes and how their fuel systems are plumbed. Now, I wonder if the in-tank bikes have a facility for grabbing fuel from both the right and left-hand sides. Since with the new bikes, it seems that the "orphaned" side is now reversed, the left ...since the pump assembly is on the right. I wonder if a flashlight and quick look down the neck could locate the pickup(s) for the pump and quickly answer this question? I'd really like to know how the new tanks handle this "1.5 gallon reserve" and the lack of a "balance tube" to get to both "saddlebags" and their fuel in the tank equally. Or maybe as the mechanic Mik spoke to, there is some special pickup/fuel-return that more evenly distributes and picks up the fuel in the new tanks? It'd be interesting to figure out finally al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Dave Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 On my '03 EV Touring, the fuel line connects on the inside left hand side of the tank, at a rather forward position. But this is the output of the fuel pump, and I have no idea where the fuel pump scavenges from, or if there is any fuel left in the tank when the motor dies from fuel starvation. Still gingerly experimenting with the fuel range -it's always brave to ride it until it drops, but rather frustrating when you finally establish your range a long way from any gas stations. When I find out, I'll post the results. In the interim, I ask those with in-tank fuel pumps, have you found the fuel filter yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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