40mm forks re-sprung -- huge improvement

[beauchemin]

I was tired of being beaten up by overdamped and undersprung 40mm forks. Also the brake-dive was terrible. Here is what I did:

 

1.05 Kg/mm springs (my weight with gear = 90 Kg / 200 lbs)

137mm spacers (which provide 10mm preload)

5 weight suspension fluid

 

 

What an amazing difference! I had a short ride this afternoon and the forks are much more compliant and comfortable -- I can now tackle bumpy corners with ease. I have both the compression and rebound set to 0 clicks. The compression feels about right, but the rebound damping will need to be increased.

 

Sorting out the suspension (front and rear) has been the best money spent for this bike.

[Guest ratchethack]

Congrat's, Chris! It's a brand new world when you discover how the forks were actually engineered to perform, ain't it? I agree with the cost-to-value on fork springs (rear spring too). IMHO, it's probably the best money you can spend unless handling, feel, and comfort on the road either aren't important, or aren't understood. (That must happen a lot, I reckon.)

 

It sounds like you achieved the same kind of match of spring rate to load that I did. But I'm wondering if you posted one item incorrectly, or if it's possible that your Marz 40 mm USD forks are different from mine. Are yours the ones with 3 settings for compression on the left cap and 3 settings for rebound on the right? Mine came stock with 110 mm spacers. If your forks are the same as mine, according to your post, you're running 27 mm more preload than stock. Is this right? At your weight and the rate of your springs, I'd have expected best sag results with less preload. OTOH, If you're a really aggressive rider and/or setting up for the track, by my rough guestimation, you might be close.

 

How'd you arrive at your preload? You didn't mention what your static and free sag measurements (or alternatively, percentages of total travel) are. Did you have specific sag objectives in mind? If so, what were/are they and how close did you get?

 

I'm really curious, because I hit both just about spot-on with progressive springs, and I'd like to know how close you can get with straight-rate springs at your weight (I weigh 175 lb., about 185 with the usual gear). With my shortened 105 mm spacers, I got 33% (40 mm)static and 21% (25 mm)free sag, just a hair above my objective on free sag. Mine are non-racing "Road Geez" sag objectives. With the new springs and stock 110 mm spacers I get 30% (36 mm) static and 19% (23 mm) free sag. Either of these are close enough to my objectives that I'm calling it about as good a match as I think is possible. Fun stuff, innit?

 

EDIT: More to consider as you get dialed-in. Now that you're no longer riding on the last 30-40% of your fork spring compression , the front end sits a whole lot higher (both static and free sag). This allows you to raise your forks in the triples quite a bit to achieve more ideal rake and trail, depending on the kind of riding you do. I found that I could raise 'em about 10 mm. The way I understand your setup, you might be able to go even more than this just to get back to the geometry you had before the re-spring. Otherwise you'll have relatively more stable handling overall, but lazy, heavy steering in the tight stuff - not usually what you want for aggressive riding and/or track work.

[Guest jedione68]

I was tired of being beaten up by overdamped and undersprung 40mm forks.  Also the brake-dive was terrible.  Here is what I did:

 

1.05 Kg/mm springs (my weight with gear = 90 Kg / 200 lbs)

137mm spacers (which provide 10mm preload)

5 weight suspension fluid

What an amazing difference!  I had a short ride this afternoon and the forks are much more compliant and comfortable -- I can now tackle bumpy corners with ease.  I have both the compression and rebound set to 0 clicks.  The compression feels about right, but the rebound damping will need to be increased.

 

Sorting out the suspension (front and rear) has been the best money spent for this bike.

70608[/snapback]

Hello Marrzociiii.

I just installed a set of "Welbers". Set up for my wieght

and ridding style (thanks to Todd suggestion and hooke up)...

had the forks drained, re springed, and I went with 10 wt

with 100 mm air gap. The bike is 1000% better, I'd say dam

near perfect, all really depending on your set up for track or street.

 

So now, I too, have a wonderful handling v11 with STOCK forks.

Lets see: $120 for the springs, $8.95 for the oil and 2 hours of my time.

That comes to $134.95 ($6 bucks for beer). That means that if I found

a set of Ohlins for lets say a low # of $1500.

I can now find other trick parts for my Guzzi's with the $1465.05 I just saved.

 

$1465.05 WOW.

 

Peace to all, and rubber side down,

Jedione68

[Guest ratchethack]

Congrat's, Jedione Chris ALSO! How many different ways can you say, "no-brainer?!"

 

Now how is it that you & I are members of such an apparently tiny club?

 

Can't quite figure this one out...??

 

EDIT: BTW - I think the term y'er after is, "Marzocchisti". But that's only spec.

[jrt]

Jedi- how much do you weigh? (if you don't mind my asking). Uh, let's say, pre-beer.

 

Chris, did you do anything to the rear suspension?

[beauchemin]

How'd you arrive at your preload?  You didn't mention what your static and free sag measurements (or alternatively, percentages of total travel) are.  Did you have specific sag objectives in mind?  If so, what were/are they and how close did you get? 

 

I'm using Traxxion's Omni springs which have a length of 270mm, whereas the stock ones are 295mm. You and I have the same forks (you mention three clicks on each side, but I have more than three positions, more like 10 or so). My stock spacers are also the same as yours. I was given the 10mm preload recommendation from the suspension pro in Vancouver from whom I bought the springs. I haven't done the sag measurements yet, but I'll do them tonight. It felt so good during the ride yesterday that I completely forgot to do it after parking it.

 

I can see why non-committed V11 owners don't keep these bikes long -- among other things, the suspension setup from the factory is very poor. The very least they could do is match the spring and damping rates.

[Guest ratchethack]

I'm using Traxxion's Omni springs which have a length of 270mm, whereas the stock ones are 295mm.  You and I have the same forks (you mention three clicks on each side, but I have more than three positions, more like 10 or so).  My stock spacers are also the same as yours.  I was given the 10mm preload recommendation from the suspension pro in Vancouver from whom I bought the springs.  I haven't done the sag measurements yet, but I'll do them tonight.  It felt so good during the ride yesterday that I completely forgot to do it after parking it.

Gotcha.

I can see why non-committed V11 owners don't keep these bikes long -- among other things, the suspension setup from the factory is very poor.  The very least they could do is match the spring and damping rates.

It's an important point that an amazingly high number of riders seem to miss altogether. I've got 2 Guzzi riding Pals who "can't be bothered" with chassis setup...Seems they'd rather talk about their next bike, and how much better it's gonna handle...

[Guest jedione68]

Congrat's, Jedione Chris ALSO! How many different ways can you say, "no-brainer?!"  

 

Now how is it that you & I are members of such an apparently tiny club? 

 

Can't quite figure this one out...??  

70665[/snapback]

I think we're apart of that little club that would rather fix

something "Outside" the box, rather then slap down a BLACK Amex Card.

I not a cheap person, but when it comes to my bike $$$, it better make it

faster or better and or I could buy a fixer-upper project bike.

 

Also, I think the world in general reads to many Motor Cycle Magizines,

and they always make every middle of the road bike seem not road worthy.

And I always wonder: "Didn't you guys start out riding on Commando's and or

CB500?!" I mean any bike since 1990 has breaks and forks better than any

one of us could ever possibly hope to ride them to there limits.

 

Anyways, I like TINKERING as much as I like riding.

As we speak, I tore off my Quat-D and am running around on

my old carbon Mistrals. Cause I'm going to do some R&D on the Quat

to get more BHP... I never give up on the "Garage Hobbit" way of life.

 

Peace, and Happy Holidays to all,

Jedione

[Guest jedione68]

Jedi- how much do you weigh?  (if you don't mind my asking).  Uh, let's say, pre-beer.

 

Chris, did you do anything to the rear suspension?

70674[/snapback]

JRT,

 

Pre-beers, I weigh about a Buck seventy five to a buck eighty (LBS)

But with ridding gear more like 185 to 190, so we (Todd E & Me) did them towards

those latter numbers. Plus, me personnly, I like my bikes set up more on

the stiff side and I'll just stand up a little for those really big bumps.

The bikes handles amazing now, no dive and most of all NO MORE WOBBLES

in those 100 MHP plus sweepres (She felt like a Norton with bad Isol???! before).

 

The rear is still the stock shock that came on 2000 v11's.

But with a little Todd E magic, he dailed her in at the British/Dam Rally,

no complants back there.

 

I'd like to go switch bikes with someone with the Ohlins Forks and Penske rear.

Cause the Red & matte DC comic book "Bee Bopper" is really dialed in and I'd

like to compare.

 

Look forward to seeing everyone on New Years Day,

And thanks Todd for the hook up!!! Good times.

Jedi-one

AKA CHRIS (Ha ha)

[dlaing]

OK you Garage Hobbits, stay away from my Ohlins, yah the forks were a bit over $2000, but gawddammit it was an easy fix.

One thing I miss about the Marzocchii is that they are lighter.

Speaking of lightness, it is interesting that one of you went with five weight and the other ten weight.

My money would be on the lighter oil, especially in the compression fork.

Jedione, I'll buy you six pack if you rip off the compression fork and try swapping the oil for five weight, actually no I won't, I don't have any money left from the Ohlins

But I still think the biggest problem with the Marzocchi is the excessive high speed compression damping, and the easiest fix is backing off the screw, and the second easiest fix, is five weight.

Heres to all you who braved the elbow grease to get a better handling, riding bike.

[Guest jedione68]

OK you Garage Hobbits, stay away from my Ohlins, yah the forks were a bit over $2000, but gawddammit it was an easy fix.

One thing I miss about the Marzocchii is that they are lighter.

Speaking of lightness, it is interesting that one of you went with five weight and the other ten weight.

My money would be on the lighter oil, especially in the compression fork.

Jedione, I'll buy you six pack if you rip off the compression fork and try swapping the oil for five weight, actually no I won't, I don't have any money left from the Ohlins 

But I still think the biggest problem with the Marzocchi is the excessive high speed compression damping, and the easiest fix is backing off the screw, and the second easiest fix, is five weight.

Heres to all you who braved the elbow grease to get a better handling, riding bike. 

70697[/snapback]

David,

The after market "springs" are what really make and or break the deal.

Oil wise, I'm not switching anytime soon, but a nice 5 wght. would do the

trick I think for most folks desires and road worthiness. I my self went

with the 10 wght for a little firmer ride and my track days.

 

Did you say $2000 bucks? I did bid low. That gives me $1865.95

to play with now (Just kidding!). And on another Ohlins note:

My buddy Jason has the Ohlins (Beautiful) but at our resent track day

found we maxxed them out on COMP and it still wasn't enough.

And one of the suspention Guru's at the track said he'll need to get

stiffer springs and change to a different wght oil. Hows that for... Ya know.

 

Hope to see ya at the Ortaga meeting on the 1st! And it was to short

of course, but nice to see ya at the L.B./C.W. bike show.

 

Peace, and rubber side down.

Jedi-----One

[jrt]

Cool. Thanks for the info Jedi.

I've got a set of springs on the way and I'll get them setup over the winter. We're about the same mass pre-beer.

[Guest jedione68]

Cool. Thanks for the info Jedi.

I've got a set of springs on the way and I'll get them setup over the winter.  We're about the same mass pre-beer.

70724[/snapback]

Your Gonna love the springs!

And then we'll try to increase our wieght with some beers, Ha ha.

Keep me posted

Jedi out

[beauchemin]

You didn't mention what your static and free sag measurements (or alternatively, percentages of total travel) are.  Did you have specific sag objectives in mind?  If so, what were/are they and how close did you get? 

 

OK, I just did my sag measurements:

 

25mm static (bike only)

40mm dynamic (with rider)

 

I was aiming for 20 and 35. Not bad for the first iteration! I think I'll ride it like this for a little while.

[beauchemin]

Chris, did you do anything to the rear suspension?

70674[/snapback]

 

Yes, I went with a complete replacement -- Wilbers with remote preload and high & low speed compression damping adjustment. I'm very pleased with it.