Guest vratbastard Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 So my frame's been straightened, now I need a good front end. Mine is BEYOND reasonable repair. While I was down at the local bike scrap yard, I happened to come across several good newer sportbike front ends. Then I thought wow, what if I just did a complete front end conversion (have a custom stem made up). I could even get one with gold/black nitrided inners, with gold anodized outers. Length was slightly off about 10mm. But, thats no big deal. I could probably buy most of the parts I need to do the conversion for what moto int'l wants for the one MG lower v11s triple, LOL! And in my opinion I would be upgrading the suspension with better components! Huh, 6 piston nissin calipers, compression/rebound on each fork. Not much of a desicion to make, lol! Has anyone else thought about or done this? I know I'll probably piss off some purists on here but, I don't care I want to get back on the road not wait for months to get the right MG parts at four times the cost of a simple conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard100t Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 I met a guy last summer that had put a Suzuki front end on his Guzzi. It wasnt a v11 but hey it can be done I guess. Btw his bike handled very well through the corners. I've been thinking of doing just such a thing to my bike. I think the stock forks are pretty cheap, the brakes are very good though. I'm guessing you'd need to be very mechanically inclined to take on such a task. Since you already need a front end you have nothing to lose so have some fun with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vratbastard Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 I met a guy last summer that had put a Suzuki front end on his Guzzi. It wasnt a v11 but hey it can be done I guess. Btw his bike handled very well through the corners. I've been thinking of doing just such a thing to my bike. I think the stock forks are pretty cheap, the brakes are very good though. I'm guessing you'd need to be very mechanically inclined to take on such a task. Since you already need a front end you have nothing to lose so have some fun with it! 79700[/snapback] It's pretty common really to do the conversion (especially on older bikes), you got all these new sportbikes with tons of technology in them for cheap. Why even bother with the stock MG stuff? In all actuality I don't think it would be all that hard to do, and sportbikes have about the same rake as the v11s so there no real problem there. Yes, stem/bearings are different as well as steering stops. But, thats all small stuff that can be changed fairly easily. Anyway as you can tell I'm not easily challenged mechanically, lol. Nor am I adverse to doing major work to my own bike. I think this front end would look great on a v11s, similar to the later ohlins equipped bikes. And the 3 spoke suzuki wheels look nearly the same as the stock v11 wheels! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 I met a guy last summer that had put a Suzuki front end on his Guzzi. It wasnt a v11 but hey it can be done I guess. Btw his bike handled very well through the corners. I've been thinking of doing just such a thing to my bike. I think the stock forks are pretty cheap, the brakes are very good though. I'm guessing you'd need to be very mechanically inclined to take on such a task. Since you already need a front end you have nothing to lose so have some fun with it! 79700[/snapback] Richard, the Guys at GuzziTech have put Showa forks on Tonti-framed Guzzis, and they've probably done lots more of this kind of thing than I know about. You might browse around over there. Yep, the water gets deep pretty quickly when you start juggling fork and chassis geometries... I'm interested in the reason you consider the stock forks "pretty cheap". Have you properly matched-up a set of springs according to your weight and riding style? How about properly setting laden and unladen sag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vratbastard Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Richard, the Guys at GuzziTech have put Showa forks on Tonti-framed Guzzis, and they've probably done lots more of this kind of thing than I know about. You might browse around over there. Yep, the water gets deep pretty quickly when you start juggling fork and chassis geometries... I'm interested in the reason you consider the stock forks "pretty cheap". Have you properly matched-up a set of springs according to your weight and riding style? How about properly setting laden and unladen sag? 79704[/snapback] I agree with richard, the stock marzocchis are cheap. One time I didn't buy a ducati monster because it had marzocchis on it! I've ridden a 1992 cbr f2 that handles better than my 2000 v11s. Then again I know the v11s isn't a true sportbike but, that's why the comparo to the '92 cbr (lol)! I mean rebound and compression on seperate sides, what idiot thought that was a good idea. Yeah stiffer springs would probably help it, any bike needs to be "setup" to the rider. But, when you have junk the begin with....Argh I'm taking this tweaked frontend to the scrap yard, hopefully someone can melt it down and make something useful out of it , LOL! Kinda glad I'll have to chance to put a decent front end on my bike, it deserves waay better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Minnaert Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 I don't see a problem, easy is to take it complete, forks, wheel, brakes, mudgard. Then the lenght is something to look at, and the triples. If you have to make one, and can't do it yourself, it's expensive then. Also look that the stem forks distance is not very short, might change the way it steers to the worse. Not less than 30mm I suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 I agree with richard, the stock marzocchis are cheap. One time I didn't buy a ducati monster because it had marzocchis on it! Vrat, lemme ask you the question. What do you find "cheap" about the Marz forks? I'm not pickin' a fight, I'm sincerely interested in your response. I'm a merely a piker and certified Road Geez, but I find a properly sprung and set-up Marz fork is more'n adequate for me. IMHO, it'd take one hell of a rider to ride it beyond it's capabilities on the road. Now on the track - it's a different kettle o' fish! Maybe you've logged serious track work on the Marz forks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vratbastard Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 I don't see a problem, easy is to take it complete, forks, wheel, brakes, mudgard. Then the lenght is something to look at, and the triples. If you have to make one, and can't do it yourself, it's expensive then. Also look that the stem<> forks distance is not very short, might change the way it steers to the worse. Not less than 30mm I suggest. 79706[/snapback] Yeah, I don't know about the sportbike front fender though. I like my v11s carbon front alot, fits the roundy lines of the v11 better. Maybe I'll do up some brackets to fit on....Just thinking aloud, need to get the front end first! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vratbastard Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Vrat, lemme ask you the question. What do you find "cheap" about the Marz forks? I'm not pickin' a fight, I'm sincerely interested in your response. I'm a merely a piker and certified Road Geez, but I find a properly sprung and set-up Marz fork is more'n adequate for me. IMHO, it'd take one hell of a rider to ride it beyond it's capabilities on the road. Now on the track - it's a different kettle o' fish! Maybe you've logged serious track work on the Marz forks? " qoute Yeah, me either. And I'm not trying to say that I could run with Rossi at laguna seca, either! Not even close (well maybe in my mind, lol). I feel that for a bike that was in the $11,900 price range (that's Hayabusa territory!) with my experience in bikes is CHEAP. Do they work yes, and for most riders yeah I guess they'd be o.k. But for a bike at that price to be "o.k." is not. It's like buying a fine wine and getting franzia (box wine!) instead. You have this great bike and then you put junk outdated components on it, it doesn't make since. Why they just didn't learn from Ducati and go with SHOWAs instead I don't know. I don't want to get into the technical implications of having compression and rebound on opposing sides of a stressed suspension member but, I will say that it's not the best way to do things. There is a reason why most all bikes have BOTH on each side. And yeah you can tell the difference in street riding. Like I said I don't want to pay for a ferrari and get a fiat.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve G. Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 So my frame's been straightened, now I need a good front end. Mine is BEYOND reasonable repair. While I was down at the local bike scrap yard, I happened to come across several good newer sportbike front ends. Then I thought wow, what if I just did a complete front end conversion (have a custom stem made up). I could even get one with gold/black nitrided inners, with gold anodized outers. Length was slightly off about 10mm. But, thats no big deal. I could probably buy most of the parts I need to do the conversion for what moto int'l wants for the one MG lower v11s triple, LOL! And in my opinion I would be upgrading the suspension with better components! Huh, 6 piston nissin calipers, compression/rebound on each fork. Not much of a desicion to make, lol! Has anyone else thought about or done this? I know I'll probably piss off some purists on here but, I don't care I want to get back on the road not wait for months to get the right MG parts at four times the cost of a simple conversion. 79699[/snapback] If you were changing your front end in the pursuit of better handling alone, I'd say you have more money than you know what to do with. But considering you've had an unfortunate thing with your bike where damaged parts need replacing, I'd say go for it. As for the stock suspension components, I wouldn't call them crap, but clearly it's far from top shelf stuff. The stock Brembo brakes however are top shelf, and on a par with most anything had from the year 1998, when they were specified on this series of machine. When installing a complete new triple tree/fork package on your series one V11, be aware that the early prototype V11's had high speed stabilty issues, and cured/reduced the twitchiness of the bikes not by changing the rake of the steering head, but by extending the bottom triple tree farther out than the top triple mount. When you put your new front end on, you had better get a very top grade steering damper, as I think your front end will be very sensitive, and prone to tank slappers. Ciao, Steve G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 I feel that for a bike that was in the $11,900 price range (that's Hayabusa territory!) with my experience in bikes is CHEAP. Do they work yes, and for most riders yeah I guess they'd be o.k. But for a bike at that price to be "o.k." is not. It's like buying a fine wine and getting franzia (box wine!) instead. You have this great bike and then you put junk outdated components on it, it doesn't make since. Why they just didn't learn from Ducati and go with SHOWAs instead I don't know. I don't want to get into the technical implications of having compression and rebound on opposing sides of a stressed suspension member but, I will say that it's not the best way to do things. There is a reason why most all bikes have BOTH on each side. And yeah you can tell the difference in street riding. Like I said I don't want to pay for a ferrari and get a fiat.... 79711[/snapback] Thanks for the reply, my friend. So the price of the bike made the Marz forks CHEAP. Well, I'd say that VALUE plays in the mix here also. But that's just me. IMHO, Guzzi went with a long-standing Italian (d'ya s'pose there were ever any powerful "inside" connections there?! ) supplier of some considerable merit with Marzocchi up until the point where they turned a corner and decided that a clearly superior "outside" supplier beat 'em out hands-down. According to some they might've been late making the change. IMHO, having comp and rebound on separate legs is a different setup alright, but I don't know of anyone who's ever cited a single valid case of improper fork action or sub-grade performance due to the design - except, of course, the accounts of competitors. The "binding" myth is simply a complete fallacy. It's different, so it's always drawn ground fire. Sure I'd more'n likely prefer Ohlins, but I don't race, I'm merely a Road Geez. So, given proper spring rates, preloads, and sag setups on each, I'm also more'n likely not talented enough to be able to tell much of any diff. on the road! I've noticed that a considerable number of riders have trashed their Marz forks before any attempt whatsoever at matching up spring rates and sags. I call that not only "unfair", but "not too damn smart!" I've dialed mine in fully with proper springs, preload, and sags and like 'em just fine, but that's just me. As Pepperoni Man said in another thread recently, call me "Fat, dumb, and happy!" As far as rumors of "tank slappers" and twitchiness of the "short-frame" Sports, I've also never heard of a single valid case of this, and I've known a fair number of short-frame Sport owners. With stock springs and improper sags and a heavy rider, bad stuff is gonna happen on any bike. You put a 200-pounder on a bike with springs designed for a 125-pounder with no attention whatsoever to steering damper, spring rates, or preload and y'er gonna have problems. The early Sports have a steeper rake than later variants and LeMans, but not nearly as steep as y'er average HyperBike of today. I'm callin' Bravo Sierra on this one too - the idea that there's something "wrong" with the geometry of the short-frame Sports is another Old Wive's Tale. BAA, TJM, & YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vratbastard Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 If you were changing your front end in the pursuit of better handling alone, I'd say you have more money than you know what to do with. But considering you've had an unfortunate thing with your bike where damaged parts need replacing, I'd say go for it. As for the stock suspension components, I wouldn't call them crap, but clearly it's far from top shelf stuff. The stock Brembo brakes however are top shelf, and on a par with most anything had from the year 1998, when they were specified on this series of machine. When installing a complete new triple tree/fork package on your series one V11, be aware that the early prototype V11's had high speed stabilty issues, and cured/reduced the twitchiness of the bikes not by changing the rake of the steering head, but by extending the bottom triple tree farther out than the top triple mount. When you put your new front end on, you had better get a very top grade steering damper, as I think your front end will be very sensitive, and prone to tank slappers. Ciao, Steve G. 79721[/snapback] Thanks for the advice, I wasn't talking about the brembos though, rather the marzocchi forks. I agree Brembos are very good (top shelf indeed). And I've got a bitubo steering dampner for it already. I've got experience with so called "tank slappers" as the Suzuki TL1000R (which I've had several) are notorious for that. Due to the fact that some well known rider went and killed himself on one in the UK shortly after the bike was released. Suzuki started installing dampeners on all TL1000Rs afterwards! Though I've never had issue with anything like that yet on one, I think the bikes are rock steady stable. I could see how someone could misuse the massive torque that those bikes have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve G. Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Thanks for the advice, I wasn't talking about the brembos though, rather the marzocchi forks. I agree Brembos are very good (top shelf indeed). And I've got a bitubo steering dampner for it already. I've got experience with so called "tank slappers" as the Suzuki TL1000R (which I've had several) are notorious for that. Due to the fact that some well known rider went and killed himself on one in the UK shortly after the bike was released. Suzuki started installing dampeners on all TL1000Rs afterwards! Though I've never had issue with anything like that yet on one, I think the bikes are rock steady stable. I could see how someone could misuse the massive torque that those bikes have. 79725[/snapback] Indeed, the TL1000 family of engines are now very sorted, after initial teething problems with pistons hitting valves. The high torque variant in the V-Strom [god what a name ] is alot of fun. Ciao, Steve G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 I upgraded from the Marzocchis to the Ohlins, and I just LOVE the difference. I don't care about shedding time off of laps, as I don't race. I have greater than 1/2 inch chicken strips, and I cannot honestly say the strips got any smaller by switching to Ohlins. What I have noticed is that they are far more comfortable, they don't bottom out, and they feel more stable at high speed, probably to the value of five clicks on the steering damper. Also, since switching to Ohlins, I am on my first front tire that does not seem to be wearing excessively on the left side....the saving on tires could pay for the Ohlins in fifty years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldini Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 ...it'd take one hell of a rider to ride it beyond it's capabilities on the road. Now on the track - it's a different kettle o' fish! ... Guess it depends what you're doing but I've had more handling problems on uneven, unpredictable roads than ever on track. You can get away with much more on a racetrack. Guzzis since I've known them (Tonti series) have been let down by stock suspension. Lot of long term owners change for better stuff, aftermarket or Jap. Mr vratbastard is keeping up an honourable tradition. Lots of features is the Japanese way but doesn't always do a better job. For me strength, quality of manufacture, longevity, rebuildability are important too. A respring etc may do the job. Depends how you ride it. When considering relative handling/braking merits, don't forget any Guzzi big twin is a very heavy m/c. Not sure Jap calipers last as well as Brembo. KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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