Guest ratchethack Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 Gents! Today I was caught for awhile in traffic behind a behemoth full-dress FLHXYZ Bloat-o-Glide, which gave me pause once again for a few minutes to ponder what I've noticed since I first started to notice such things in the early '60's -- Harleys sound like agricultural equipment. Now in contrast, every Guzzi (including my own, with FBF oval carbon mufflers) sounds a whole lot more to me like an instrument in a symphony orchestra - maybe a cross between a wind instrument like a contra-bassoon and a brass-section trombone... You'd think that air-cooled pushrod V-twins of similar displacement would have some similarities in sound, wouldn't you? And yet, they couldn't possibly sound more different! The common (to me, just frickin' annoying) sound of Harley Big Twins has always reminded me of big, fat, smelly bohemian slobs who wouldn't think twice about taking delight in blasting power-farts in polite company. Sophomoric crap that got old the 2nd (OK, the 3rd) time I heard it in 2nd grade... So some of you flow-bench Guru's and/or Porting Pontificates - what the hell makes the difference inside the cylinder head and/or diameter of exhaust ports and pipes and/or shape of the combustion chamber/piston crown that separates the trademark gatling-gun fart noise of the HD from the pure tonal mastery of the Guzzi's consummate Professional Baritone? Enquiring minds just GOTTA know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Stewart Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 It is the 90 degree V twin sound. The only V twin bike's that comes close are the Ducati's and the Honda RC51 (both 90 degree Vtwins). Aprilia with the V60, sounds way different, Harley with their weird Y design rod setup and 45 degree V= the kadump, kadump sound. No music to my ears. The right mufflers seem to bring out the deep bass which is a plus in my book. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callison Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 If it's a Harley, it has to have straight pipes, too much chrome etc. That minimalist appearance pretty much precludes putting on something with a nice sound like a Mistral muffler. The HD crowd simply doesn't want anything interrupting the looks - or the volume of their bikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 I suspect there is also something else to the noise than the firing order. A Vincent is not a 90degree and it sounds fantastic. A Norton parallel twin sounds incredible. The MV Agusta four cylinder of the 1970s sounded better than any fours that I have ever heard. Could it be the porting, or the valve timing, or the valve size???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete roper Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 I think a lot of it has to do with expectations. Many people who ride bikes want them to sound the way they do. In the case of Harley riders in particular they want their bike to be loud and, to a degree, obnoxious, because it indicates to ordinary, eveyday people that they are serious dudes who need to be taken, errrr? seriously . Most of the ones that sound really awful are actually tuned absolutely appalingly! Remember that for ears now the carbureted bikes have been non-adjustable, as far as idle mixture is concerned which means that the 'Bleating Budgie' or whatever they're called pipes only have the function of making more noise and not actually doing anything for the state of tune. I suppose the theory is as long as it keeps running and makes the right noise to keep the punters happy that's all that matters. It may even make a bit more power being less restrictive but if it was tuned right it would make more power again but that really isn't the point, is it? I'd also hazard a guess that the fact that all HD's are very long stroke motors would have a bearing on the noise emmited after the exhaust valve opens but I'm not an expert on either phonics or harmonics so I can't say for sure. At the end of the day one man's meat is another man's poison. That noise does nothing for me and when I get a pack of look-a-like dolts running past the end of my street all making as much racket as they can, simply because they can, it's a real pisser, but on a scale of things it's pretty unimportant compared to issues like the Iranians producing fisile grade uranium or Robert Mugabe murdering his country's population by stealth so I let 'em get on with it. I'm just sorry that they are so worried about the size of their penises, it's not like we can actually do anything about what we're born with and girls don't really seem to care very much anyway. Perhaps they are all gay after all Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nogbad Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 Well, my Buell is basically a Harley 45° common crankpin V2 but doesn't sound anything like the Sportster. It has a crackling bark of an exhaust note and sounds great when revved so a lot of the sound character must be in the tuning and the muffler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Field Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 Take a Guzzi with a heavy flywheel and reduce rpm to 800 or so, and it emits a triplet beat not at all unlike a Harley's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzzirider Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 I believe that the motor in the XB12R is completely different to a 1200 Sportster engine. It is a stroked XB9R motor to Erik Buells own design. All air cooled twins with open pipes are loud- but its how you ride your bike that creates perceptions. If you ride like a twat in built up areas and rev the bollocks off it at traffic lights, then you will be perceived as a noisy annoying d*ck head. Alternatively, if you ride responsibly in built up areas and keep the revs down, then you will obviously create a much better perception. In these parts, its generally riders of GSXRs and R1s with race pipes who scream the bollocks off their bikes in the suburbs, together with chavs in stupid little Citroens with a silencer the width of the channel tunnel, trying to impress their 14 year old girlfriends. Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve G. Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 I think a major amount of the H.D. 'character', has to do with it's 45 degree V configuration, along with the single crank pin, giving those engines the "potato, potato' idle, and obnoxious blatt at it's high rev area. An interesting note. The last 2 weekends I was at Harley test ride days, tried several models, and frankly don't get it. Absolute trucks, all of them! It's not too often something this horrible makes me laugh out loud while actually riding .Anyways, Pete mentioned something about the noise factor that a Harley owner quickly adds to the package, [along with many, many dollars to actually get power out of the pigs. From the test ride comes confirmation that Harley is dropping all aftermarket pipes from their "Screamin Eagle" performance catalog. Seems H.D. is bowing to pressure from the U.S. govt. about the un-social nature of these attention whores who would be weekend warriors, waking people, intimidating kids and old ladies, and generally looking silly. Ciao, Steve G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 I'm just sorry that they are so worried about the size of their penises, it's not like we can actually do anything about what we're born with and girls don't really seem to care very much anyway. Perhaps they are all gay after all Pete Thanks, Pete. Best explanation I've heard yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badmotogoozer Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 It's all relative. Some people like to go out to the symphony, some like to stay home and listen to the sounds of their own farts. Rj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nogbad Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 It's all relative. 85988[/snapback] I will not open this thread and subject myself to Ratchet's crap again.I will not open this thread and subject myself to Ratchet's crap again. I will not open this thread and subject myself to Ratchet's crap again...... 85988[/snapback] Are you trying to limit the number of threads you CAN open? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeBenGuzzi Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 Take a Guzzi with a heavy flywheel and reduce rpm to 800 or so, and it emits a triplet beat not at all unlike a Harley's. 85948[/snapback] just run it with headers, She'll sound A LOT like a harley. I ran mine with just the crossover in place(no cans) WHOA loud. I dunno I really like this one but it may be after I'm 30. and I want the big engine with standard pipes(or at least performance with stock sound) I hate those things with straights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nogbad Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 I dunno I really like this one but it may be after I'm 30. and I want the big engine with standard pipes(or at least performance with stock sound) I hate those things with straights. 86124[/snapback] Don't bow to peer pressure. If you want one, have one, no need to feel ashamed of your Harley-love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzzirider Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 Don't bow to peer pressure. If you want one, have one, no need to feel ashamed of your Harley-love. 86127[/snapback] That's certainly my attitude. If I gave a toss about what others think I would not have a Guzzi either. Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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