Guzzirider Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 I have now done about 2000 miles since the installation of my FBF pistons last month. I took my bike to Hobbsport Racing in Keighley today to get a new custom map for the power commander. Hobbsport's dyno is renowned for giving lower readings on paper than other local tuning shops but they are very popular with racers because of the difference they make when tuning. The pink lines are from the previous dyno run in Jan 2005 with standard pistons. The black lines are from todays run. Both horsepower and torque are improved for the majority of the rev range. Peak HP is actually very slightly down over standard, although peak torque is higher. On the road, the bike feels a fair bit quicker which I think is down to the extra torque which is just where you want it. In summary, this is not the sort of mod for those seeking peak HP numbers to brag about down the pub. It is worth doing this conversion if you want more poke just where you need it most of the time. For the reord the numbers are: Peak power: 77.8 BHP at the rear wheel Peak torque: 74.2 foot pounds at the rear wheel Top speed: 140.6 MPH @ 8175 revs Guy P.S. Valves arrived this morning but leaving that job until the winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 In summary, this is not the sort of mod for those seeking peak HP numbers to brag about down the pub. It is worth doing this conversion if you want more poke just where you need it most of the time. 89912[/snapback] All you have to do is show them the printout if you want to brag. You have a peak HP gain through 80% of the rpm range. Looking at the last posted Quat-D muffler, these pistons could really help. These pistons would be perfect for enhancing a slightly hotter cam. With a hotter cam, you could brag about 80HP while the higher compression piston would help keep the power at the bottom that otherwise would be lost, while enhancing the mid range. Excellent! Have you noticed any lack of driveability with these pistons? Others have suggested that high compression pistons are bad and will cause pinging or pinking and all sorts of nightmares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzzirider Posted May 22, 2006 Author Share Posted May 22, 2006 I filled up with some very dodgy low octane fuel a few weeks back when I had no choice in the Keilder Forest and the bike pinked like a bastard then, although I reckon it still would have done on standard pistons. Before today I would say very slightly more pinking than standard with the new pistons, but this has been mainly been dialled out now, perhaps by more fuel being chucked in at certain points? To ride, the bike feels a fair bit quicker and seems quite rapid in the mid range. Driveability has been improved if anything. I guess I should leave it alone now but wonder if I can make it even better by getting the ignition curve altered? I will be in Germany next month and have made enquiries with HTM to see what the deal is with getting them to do this. I just can't leave it alone! Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluezrx26 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 I have now done about 2000 miles since the installation of my FBF pistons last month. I took my bike to Hobbsport Racing in Keighley today to get a new custom map for the power commander. Hobbsport's dyno is renowned for giving lower readings on paper than other local tuning shops but they are very popular with racers because of the difference they make when tuning. The pink lines are from the previous dyno run in Jan 2005 with standard pistons. The black lines are from todays run. Both horsepower and torque are improved for the majority of the rev range. Peak HP is actually very slightly down over standard, although peak torque is higher. On the road, the bike feels a fair bit quicker which I think is down to the extra torque which is just where you want it. In summary, this is not the sort of mod for those seeking peak HP numbers to brag about down the pub. It is worth doing this conversion if you want more poke just where you need it most of the time. For the reord the numbers are: Peak power: 77.8 BHP at the rear wheel Peak torque: 74.2 foot pounds at the rear wheel Top speed: 140.6 MPH @ 8175 revs Guy P.S. Valves arrived this morning but leaving that job until the winter. 89912[/snapback] Hi How are you? well I was disapointed upon reading this....these are the fast by ferracci pistons right? ok let's start by asking what are your other mods? at the site they advertise that with the ferraci power comander and cams or whatever and the pistons and the exaust and pipes and some fine tunning you would be looking at 90 at the rear wheel and after it is worn in it will gain another 7 horsepower so a total of 97 hp. so a gain of 18hp in total apparently. what do you think of this?they say the compression will raise to 11:1 ratio or something. i would like to know if you think that after all the money spent is this really worth it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzzirider Posted May 23, 2006 Author Share Posted May 23, 2006 Hi How are you? well I was disapointed upon reading this....these are the fast by ferracci pistons right? ok let's start by asking what are your other mods? at the site they advertise that with the ferraci power comander and cams or whatever and the pistons and the exaust and pipes and some fine tunning you would be looking at 90 at the rear wheel and after it is worn in it will gain another 7 horsepower so a total of 97 hp. so a gain of 18hp in total apparently. what do you think of this?they say the compression will raise to 11:1 ratio or something.i would like to know if you think that after all the money spent is this really worth it? 90041[/snapback] Hi there! Current mods: Mistral pipes Stucchi X Over Power Commander 111 USB Lidless airbox K and N filter FBF pistons Firstly, don't worry about the figures. When you are looking at dyno charts the important thing is to look at the before and after difference. I know there are people who get their standard V11s dynoed elsewhere to show 88BHP at the back wheel but I doubt they are more powerful than my modded engine- the only way to compare is to put them on the same dyno at the same time. I have yet to meet another V11 that can pull away from mine on the straight and I am a heavy bloke! Secondly, am I happy? Well I am delighted- there is more power than before throughout most of the rev range and a huge dollop of more torque all the way from low revs. Even with my limited knowledge of engines I would very much doubt that even with the valve mods and head flowing I intend to have carried out it will make masses of more power- maybe a little more top end? I have never got carried away with the FBF power claims- all I want to do is make my motor the best in can be within reason. To put this into perspective, the cost of the pistons plus gaskets was less than my Stucchi X over which has probably made little or no difference. Whereas the pistons have made a big difference to power and torque throughout most of the rev range so in my eyes money well spent if you are really looking for more from your motor. If you are happy already then obviously its not worth spending the cash. Like I said above, it's not the mod for bar room bragging about peak BHP, more about making your bike better. I don't think anyone has previously posted before and after comparisons of the FBF pistons before so I am glad I did- hopefully its opened up our eyes to what they are really all about. Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluezrx26 Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 :!: you very much for the response very well put. I was going to say that i have seen on the net some charts where they come up with 81hp at the rear with some re-mapping with mistral pipes ,stucci and k & N filters but you already have them....hmmmm it really otta be making 81 hp no? then again not every bike is the same but i would expect some more hp to come because it is not worn in yet after all you only have 2000miles on them.I believe it will in the least make that much you did get like you said alot of help on the midrange..but still where did those guys come up with nearly 100hp at the rear???? could mapping do the trick??? keep us posted on your efforts because i'm thinking about it thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzzirider Posted May 24, 2006 Author Share Posted May 24, 2006 you did get like you said alot of help on the midrange..but still where did those guys come up with nearly 100hp at the rear????could mapping do the trick??? keep us posted on your efforts because i'm thinking about it thank you 90109[/snapback] I suspect they did not come up with nearly 100bhp at the rear wheel- at the time of the Moto Retro article they were launching some new products for tuning Guzzis so I would imagine were making claims that would sell lots of products. I will of course keep you posted. Bike will be on HTMs dyno in a couple of weeks while I get the ignition remapped- will be interesting to compare differences. Regards Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonio carroccio Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Hi Guy, These pistons are for me like a mania. I really don't know if to flow the cylinders or upgrade the pistons with ferracci 11:1 What I know is that I badly want more compression, more torque. I think this will be a winter project to me. Could you tell me how many hours did the mechanic spent to install the pistons? Did you also remove the old valve for a new set? Are these also Ferracci? ciao, Antonio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 There was a previous thread debating the claims of FBF. I was probably their biggest defender, and I think they were pushing the limits of stretching the truth. 100RWHP is possible, but at a compromise. You would need aggressive cams and porting, big valves, high compression pistons, lightened flywheel and rods, aggressive tuning, and an optimistic dynometer. I think the MotoEuro bike had just about everything but the lighter components and the hot cam. I think the only reason to go with a cam hotter than the one John T used, is if you want to go purely for top speed. According to the Dynos, John T. actually lost the tiniest bit of peak maximum HP, but gained alot of high mid range. John T. did just about every reasonable mod except for the high compression pistons, and got very similar result to the Moto Euro/ FBF bike. These mods will cost a fair amount of money and you will still be slower than just about any multivalve water cooled liter sport twin....but that is not the point of going for it. As always, your mileage may vary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzzirider Posted May 24, 2006 Author Share Posted May 24, 2006 Hi Guy, These pistons are for me like a mania. I really don't know if to flow the cylinders or upgrade the pistons with ferracci 11:1 What I know is that I badly want more compression, more torque. I think this will be a winter project to me. Could you tell me how many hours did the mechanic spent to install the pistons? Did you also remove the old valve for a new set? Are these also Ferracci? ciao, Antonio 90125[/snapback] Hi Antonio Mal (from this forum) helped me fit them- it was a weekend job really- I did the easy stuff like tanking off the tank, scraping off old bits of gasket and carbon, making the tea and he did all the difficult bits. I have not yet got the new valves fitted- they have arrived from Italy but I won't get these fitted until the winter as I don't want the bike off the road this summer. My local tuning shop will flow the heads and fit the new valves. If you are at Boxmeer you are welcome to take mine for a spin to see for yourself whether the piston swap is worth it before spending the cash. If you do decide to order, speak to Alessandro at FBF in Italy- he will give you a very big discount if you ask him very nicely- my valves cost 33.60 euros each including tax whereas the list price was 60 euros plus tax. Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonio carroccio Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Guy, I'm afraid I am not in Boxmeer but in Deutschland. There is a big chance I will ride from Holland to the V11treffen in Germay with Jaap, always if he will me as a travel companion About the heads, do you have to flow them??? Is it not enough to replace the old valves and fit the new one? Why folw the cylinders???? Light me up, please!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzzirider Posted May 24, 2006 Author Share Posted May 24, 2006 Guy, I'm afraid I am not in Boxmeer but in Deutschland.There is a big chance I will ride from Holland to the V11treffen in Germay with Jaap, always if he will me as a travel companion About the heads, do you have to flow them??? Is it not enough to replace the old valves and fit the new one? Why folw the cylinders???? Light me up, please!!! 90184[/snapback] The tuning shop I use Hobbsport has the reputation of being the best at cylinder head flowing in this locality. He did the same to their Guzzi racer along with bigger valves and it made some decent power. Please don't ask me to explain the physics behind it- I am better at riding them rather than explaining them!! I assume its all about making the heads as efficient as possible. Ciao Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonio carroccio Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 thx Guy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 I have now done about 2000 miles since the installation of my FBF pistons last month. I took my bike to Hobbsport Racing in Keighley today to get a new custom map for the power commander. Hobbsport's dyno is renowned for giving lower readings on paper than other local tuning shops but they are very popular with racers because of the difference they make when tuning. The pink lines are from the previous dyno run in Jan 2005 with standard pistons. The black lines are from todays run. Both horsepower and torque are improved for the majority of the rev range. Peak HP is actually very slightly down over standard, although peak torque is higher. Hi guy, There's something wrong with that dyno chart. I believe the HP and torque curves should always cross at 5252 rpm, yours cross about 6000 rpm. horsepower = rpm x torque / 5252 torque = 5252 x horsepower / rpm I bet your peak hp will get better once the piston & rings are worn in a little more. It seems like every post that I've seen from those with the FBF pistons has been very positive. This could be a nice little winter project for me! Thanks for the information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzzirider Posted May 24, 2006 Author Share Posted May 24, 2006 Hi guy,There's something wrong with that dyno chart. I believe the HP and torque curves should always cross at 5252 rpm, yours cross about 6000 rpm. horsepower = rpm x torque / 5252 torque = 5252 x horsepower / rpm I bet your peak hp will get better once the piston & rings are worn in a little more. It seems like every post that I've seen from those with the FBF pistons has been very positive. This could be a nice little winter project for me! Thanks for the information. 90197[/snapback] Just looked at a couple of V11 dyno charts on Guzzitech and they do cross at the 5252 mark. I won't worry about it- the bike feels nice to ride and that is the important thing but it is an interesting observation! cheers Guy P.S. Could it be anything to do with the fact that Hobbsport use ECE power rather than SAE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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