Guest MikeC Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 may still buy them tho. 90095[/snapback] [ Well...I ordered them, shipping tomorrow (red) should look nice. Screw the shipping $$ go for it. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anton Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 some pictures of the Moto Guzzi Ergal set. Anton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helicopterjim R.I.P. Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 Personally I'd stay away from aluminum screws and find some stainless steel equivalents. 90071[/snapback] I am not in favour of stainless steel because they do not have the tensile strength of plain steel and are a real b$^^@r to drill out. If you use stainless be very careful with your torques!! I use regular steel hardware but I clean them with brake cleaner and then spray them with clearcoat paint. They look super with a bit of a sheen to them and they don't corrode. Perhaps if they corrode someday I'll simply replace them (they are cheap). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 I am not in favour of stainless steel because they do not have the tensile strength of plain steel and are a real b$^^@r to drill out. If you use stainless be very careful with your torques!! I use regular steel hardware but I clean them with brake cleaner and then spray them with clearcoat paint. They look super with a bit of a sheen to them and they don't corrode. Perhaps if they corrode someday I'll simply replace them (they are cheap). There are many tradeoffs to consider with replacement fasteners. I've used lots of stainless fasteners on my bikes, but as Heli-Jim points out, they have poor tensile strength and should NEVER be used when a hardened steel fastener is required for serious torque (tensile strength requirement) or where high shear strength is required (as in the case of brake caliper bolts). For this reason, I find stainless best in non-torque-critical applications like chain cases, cam covers, rocker boxes, etc.. At least they don't corrode like softer grades of steel. On the other hand, stainless will set up dissimilar metal galvanic reaction between itself and aluminum over time, causing slight corrosion at the interface unless they're treated - or unless, as is often the case - there's oil or grease in the threads, which seems to work effectively also. Stainless steel bolts are also infamous for galling with anything approaching serious torque on 'em when screwed into stainless nuts! I've found that liberal use of either threadlocker or anti-seize is good protection against both dissimilar metal galvanic corrosion and stainless-in-stainless galling. Though I've never used argal, it would seem to have advantages over both steel and stainless steel, but only of course in non-torque-critical applications -- very little corrosion, no dissimilar-metal galvanic reaction in aluminum cases, and little worry about tensile strength in the right application. Many riders seem to pay no attention whatsoever to any of the above. They buy replacement fasteners for the "bling" factor...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiloSjon Posted June 2, 2006 Author Share Posted June 2, 2006 (edited) Let's try this one (please comment if needed!) Aluminium: Pro: available in different colors, corrodes slowly Con: Expensive, will break under high tension, but easy to drill out See: AF1 Racing Stainless steel: Pro: will not corrode, no need to treat Con: Expensive, will break under high tension and hard to drill out, if not treated, will cause the surrounding material to corrode faster See: RVS-Bouten-Moeren.nl Argal Pro: Bling, will not corrode, no need to treat, doesn't affect the surrounding material, good usable in medium tension situations Con: Very expensive, only available in gold See: Argal set Normal (hardened) steel Pro: cheap, applicable in high torque situations Con: sensitive to corrosion, needs extra treatment Pfff, hope I have it all right... Does this make sense?.... Was just trying to make up my mind. The standard screws are just plain aluminium (and steel for high tension), right? [Edit] Standard screws are zinc (or other) plated mild steel Edited June 2, 2006 by KiloSjon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 Pfff, hope I have it all right... Does this make sense?.... Was just trying to make up my mind. The standard screws are just plain aluminium (and steel for high tension), right? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> KiloSjon, I think you're mostly correct, except that I don't know of any bike (including Guzzi) that comes with aluminum (Argal or Ergal) fasteners. They're too expensive for production. The common production socket-head screws for cases and cam (in our case, rocker) covers are zinc (or other) plated mild steel. Critical high-torque bolts in Guzzis (almost anthing inside the engine, for example) are various grades of hardened steel. There are grades for tensile strength and grades for both yield and shear strength. You should NEVER replace a hardened steel bolt with anything other than the same grade or better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiloSjon Posted June 2, 2006 Author Share Posted June 2, 2006 KiloSjon, I think you're mostly correct, except that I don't know of any bike (including Guzzi) that comes with aluminum (Argal or Ergal) fasteners. They're too expensive for production. 90997[/snapback] Ratchethack: thanks for your patience, one last question (I was not familiar with Argal/Ergal): In my understanding it is a hardened form of aluminium, correct? (so not all the colored alu screws are Argal?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 KiloSjon, I believe you are correct. All aluminum on a motorcycle is some kind of an alloy of aluminum. There are many different kinds of aluminum alloys and many kinds of heat treatments, forgings, castings, extrusions, etc. - all alloys of aluminum, with a wide spectrum of properties. Argal (or is it Ergal - a colloquialism? ) is a special aluminum alloy, specially treated for application as a fastener. It's still "soft" relative to many (if not most) kinds of fasteners. Maybe a real mechanic (of which I ain't one except of the most marginal shade-tree variety ) will chime in with a more technical explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiloSjon Posted June 2, 2006 Author Share Posted June 2, 2006 Maybe a real mechanic (of which I ain't one ) will chime in with a more technical explanation. 91003[/snapback] Ok, thanks a lot for now... I was stuck in the dictionary that said: Er´gal n. 1. (Physics) Potential energy; negative value of the force function. ar·gal (ärgl) n. Variant of argol. ar·gol (ärgôl) also ar·gal (-gl) n. Crude potassium bitartrate, a by-product of winemaking. argal - wild sheep of semidesert regions in central Asia So your answer helps me a lot more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 argal - wild sheep of semidesert regions in central Asia So THAT's why the damn stuff is so expensive - it's the shipping! I wonder if I could raise a small herd and go into business.....? Let's see.......the feed goes in the front end and the screws come out the business end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted June 3, 2006 Share Posted June 3, 2006 argal - wild sheep of semidesert regions in central Asia 91004[/snapback] Could there be a connection to Pete Roper, Yak fat, and Argal? Boy, this is a tough word to research. Anyway it seems that Argal or Ergal refer to Aluminum 7075 http://www.suppliersonline.com/propertypages/7075.asp#Spec EDIT Oh, and not too expensive http://www.fastener-express.com/index.asp?...ROD&ProdID=2910 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtucker Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 What about titanium? http://www.yoyodyneti.com/category.aspx?categoryID=2692 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Minnaert Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 another idea, drive by http://www.hopmotorsport.nl/ they don't have a set, but all colors available. The set on the picture looks to have not so much parts. I see HOP has griso sets availble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiloSjon Posted June 5, 2006 Author Share Posted June 5, 2006 another idea, drive by http://www.hopmotorsport.nl/ they don't have a set, but all colors available. The set on the picture looks to have not so much parts. I see HOP has griso sets availble. 91163[/snapback] Good idea, I already planned to visit TLM soon, and it is on the route from my work (Eindhoven) to Nijmegen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangeokie Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Let's try this one (please comment if needed!)Aluminium: Pro: available in different colors, corrodes slowly Con: Expensive, will break under high tension, but easy to drill out See: AF1 Racing. . . 90996[/snapback] Here's what the AF1 tank bolt set looks like in gold . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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