Oil Starvation: No Room Left for Doubt

[Greg Field]

So, in effort to merge into packed traffic from my position of a dead stop, I accelerated pretty hard into a tiny opening in traffic, keeping one eye on my mechanical oil-pressure gauge.

 

Not only did the gauge's needle twitch this time, it went all the way to zero and stayed there for several seconds as I chopped power in order to avoid harm to my rod bearings. Finally, it stopped sucking air, and the oil pressure quickly rose to normal, and I was able to accelerate into the traffic hole.

 

This is not OK. Time to build a windage tray or some sort of dam around the pickup before my bearings die a slow death by periodic starvation.

 

I checked oil when I got home, and it was halfway between full and the add line.

 

Damn. I did not need another project . . .

[jrt]

Damn. I did not need another project . . .

That's exactly when projects drop into your lap. Should I post the picture of the 6 sets of brake calipers on my bench?

 

Well, I can't say I welcome your observations, but thanks for posting them. Maybe Pete can make up a couple dozen more windage trays?

J

[Guest ratchethack]

ACK! Who's gonna do a run of baffle plates?

[Ouiji Veck]

ACK! ACK!

But does it make sence?

Could we be missing something?

I mean...considering it's a Guzzi.

Whats different?

Meanwhile...press a couple of baffles for me.

[Guest ratchethack]

Whats different?

Now, thanks to Greg, we've got some pretty solid evidence that there's a subtle, but unrelenting left jab workin' away since the early rounds. . . . . . and we know there's a feint and a block we can use that're almost certain to prevent it from takin' us out completely in later rounds.

[DeBenGuzzi]

I may want said oil baffle, I've had oil starvation b4, haven't since I changed the oil with a full 4 qts but I'm sure thats not exactly the best for it either. I'm sure there is an easy enough fix for this somewhere somehow, Would the deep sump solve this? though I think that a slightly ugmo solution.

[Martin Barrett]

I've been previously berated for running my level at about 1/2 full to allow for the propensity to blow off any extra, as it tended to find it's level so to speak. But I've found if kept topped right up I don't get any flickering oil lights. The last time it flickered was the other week when the oil level again had dropped, and I hadn't checked since going to Germany which was about 1500miles previous and involved

long periods on the autobahn. I think as a model is particularly sensitive to oil levels and needs to be checked regularly - a sight glass would have been good.

[pete roper]

If Greg doesn't have the time, inclination or contacts to do a run I'd be more than happy to get my local mob to do a run of them if he can come up with a template.

 

The most important thing I think is to have some sort of *cover* ie, the plate, over the surface of the oil in the sump. There obviously have to be holes for bits like the filter/thermostat housing to poke through and I would suggest that these, pretty much alone, will be adequate for drain back to the sump. Perhaps a couple of slots either ide of the plate as well to allow oil running down the crankcase walls to get to the sump easily. The main thing would be to have not much in the ay of holes or slots at the back of the sump. That way under hard acceleration the oil won't be trying to slop back and away from the pick-up.

 

Top stuff Greg. ow we are SURE the problem is there? Lets deal with it once and for all. Obviously I was wrong about the sensitivity of the guage sender mechanism. For that I apologise.

 

Pete

[mike wilson]

I'm not sure you need to apologise. "...stayed there for several seconds..." sounds horrifying to me. Damped or undamped, that is a very clear indication of what is going on.

 

The question now is whether a simple windage tray - which is not intended to prevent oil from slopping around - will do the job. Maybe some vertical baffles on the underside will be necessary. It may be better to attach them directly to the floor of the sump.

 

mike

[Greg Field]

Certainly, no apologies are necessary.

 

I do think a windage plate will help, so long as we keep its aft half as free of holes as possible. I'll try to find time to start on a pattern this weekend.

 

FWIW, I tried braking really hard last night also, just to see if it would starve from that, and it appeared not to.

[Ballacraine]

Now, that is an important result!

 

Good work in diagnosing that.

 

Well done Greg.

 

I'm not sure baffles are going to make much difference, I think the windage plate is going to be most effective?

 

Nige.

[Guest ratchethack]

I'm not sure baffles are going to make much difference, I think the windage plate is going to be most effective? 

Before we get too far off into the tall grass here, may I again suggest an agreement on terms BAFFLE plate vs. WINDAGE plate for the sake of clarity.

 

As discussed at this link below and illustrated in discussion and in photos at accompanying links, there's a significant difference between the twain. I believe what we're contemplating, Gents, is more correctly ref'd to as a BAFFLE plate.

 

Pls. ref. post #13 here:

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8135&hl=

[Ballacraine]

If we are talking baffles, we would be looking at installing them vertically at ninety degrees to the crank.

 

What I was referring to was a horizontal plate.

 

On reflection perhaps we do need both?

 

Nige.

[guzzi323]

I do think a windage plate will help, so long as we keep its aft half as free of holes as possible. I'll try to find time to start on a pattern this weekend.

I've got a starting point for you here.

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8251

Note that you'll have to make the filter/pickup hole larger along the lines of the red area in the pic. Also, something I forgot about in my original post, since this spaces down the sump just a wee bit I had to slightly elongate the lower sidestand bracket mounting bolt which goes into the sump.

 

johnk

[twhitaker]

I remain convinced a vortex in the oil is snaking its way through the hole in the top of the screen cover alongside the oil pickup tube.

 

Wouldn't the simplest fix be to make some sort of stopper to cover that gap? Something like a suction cup with a hole through the center? Push this onto the pickup tube such that the perimeter of the cup rests on the cover.