guido Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 I have just taken delivery of an unloved V11 sport with bubble paint on engine. The bike will only start in neutral (even if clutch is pulled). the clutch does not release, and the engine dies when selecting any gear. Initially I thought it stalled because it would not disengage on the clutch, but it also switches the engine off as soon as a gear is selected if you try a rolling start. OK this problem is now sorted. the sidestand switch is missing, and I have bridged out the terminals on the sensor wire. The bike now runs, also in gear, but still no clutch. I will try a run on the high-way to see if heat and vibration might free the clutch (the bike has been standing for months) but if not, I must look for another cause I know the engine has had a bearing replaced, and the workmanship does not seem above suspicion, so anything is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nogbad Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 I would check out the clutch hydraulics to make sure there is no air in it. If there is air in the circuit you won't get the full release travel. Secondly, it is possible that the clutch plates are stuck together. Try putting the bike in gear, say second, and with the clutch lever pulled in, rock the bike backwards and forwards and hopefully the plates will free off. Naturally you need to make sure the hydraulics are healthy before doing that. If the clutch still remains seized, you may have to pull the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Guido, I think Nog's on the right track. There's a problem with the clutch hydraulics. IMHO, it's extremely unlikely that the plates have become seized together. When working properly, the clutch slave cylinder exerts enough pressure to break 'em free even if they were super-glued. . . . . Depending on the year of the Guzzi, you can fairly easily dismantle the entire clutch hydraulics to diagnose problems if need be. The pre-gussetted frame models have no obstruction behind the slave cylinder, so it's easily removed via the 3 socket-head retaining screws. It comes straight back and out. I'd bleed it properly first, and if problems remain, have it out for a thorough inspection. You may have a bad seal. Hope this helps. Good luck, my friend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve G. Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 This 'stuck clutch' problem can be an issue with any machine, wet clutch or dry. Once you've determined that the clutch lever is indeed making movement in the slave cylinder behind the clutch, the best way to brake free a clutch is to get out on a straight stretch, pull the clutch in, and gun the engine in 4th or 5th at the same time holding the bike back with both brakes, being at the ready to shut the throttle off once the engine instantly breaks loose, or it will quickly go into red line valve float territory. Because of the V11's power characteristics, you may have to allow the engine to rev up around 5000rpm to break free the clutch. Also be carefull you don't slide the front wheel out on yourself. It is a tricky method, don't try it if you are, well, uncoordinated. Ciao, Steve G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guido Posted July 15, 2006 Author Share Posted July 15, 2006 Well, now it seems I will have to pull the engine/box. I tried bleeding the slavecylinder, but that didn't yield any results, the clutch lever in any case felt right. Next thing I took it to the highway, and let it get warm and used the clutch while in 6th. It suddenly reved and died with the clutch lever pulled. I featherd the lever out, but got a funny feeling from the back. The whole drivetrain is now seized, it appears. There is no oil spill, no rattles, but coasting to a standstill, I can't get the engine to turn over on the starter or in gear.. The gears work. I guess I will start by dropping the sump and have a look. Anyone with a good design for a worktable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Guido, it seems that some basic analysis may help get you pointed in the right direction. But I can't quite follow you here. If the drive train were seized, you wouldn't have coasted to a standstill. You'd likely have crashed due to a locked rear wheel. If you coasted to a stop with a seized engine, you either had it in neutral or the clutch now works and it was in gear. When you hit the starter, does it engage the flywheel and just stop, so that it appears the crank has seized? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guido Posted July 15, 2006 Author Share Posted July 15, 2006 I don't see it making a lot of sense, except if the engine has seized and the clutch now works. But that's about what it looks like. I had the bike fetched on a trailer, and it is still there, in the dark. the starter clicks, but does not turn, and the bike rolls, but only in neutral. If in gear, nothing moves. I will give it a look tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard100t Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 When the bike is in gear & you say it wont move, is that with the clutch lever pulled in? I cant move my bike while its in gear unless the clutch is pulled in. Maybe I just need to eat my Wheaties! If it wont move with the clutch pulled in I'd say its either the clutch or the cable/linkage between the clutch lever & the clutch. Its easy to tell if the engine is seized, just pull the alternator cover off & turn the motor from the alternator nut. Either put it in nuetral or better yet put the rear wheel in the air. If the motor wont turn from the alternator nut in nuetral then something is terribly wrong! If you can turn the rear wheel with the bike in gear from the alternator nut then it may be a cable type of problem & not the clutch. I'm not a mechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guido Posted July 17, 2006 Author Share Posted July 17, 2006 Got the V11 off the trailer. Selected a gear, clutch is free and working, but either the engine or the box is solid. Took off the starter, just in case it had jammed on the ring gear. no luck. Spark plugs off to see if I have a mangled valve, but none can be seen, although you can't see too much. I'll better take the valve covers off and then, sigh, the sump. I wish I had a bore scope! But that's what life is all about, I guess, don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrt Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Put her in neutral, take out the spark plugs, remove the front alternator housing and try to turn the engine using the hex key on the alternator. From your description though, it sounds like a siezed motor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 clutch is free and working, but either the engine or the box is solid. Guido, per your statement above, it's a simple step toward eliminating suspicion of one of either the engine or the trans. As Jason suggested, directly turning the crank with a wrench will clarify things. An easier alternative would be to gently lever against the teeth of the flywheel with a screwdriver through the inspection hole. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guido Posted July 17, 2006 Author Share Posted July 17, 2006 The motor does not turn with screwdriver on starter ring gear. I have dropped the sump, everything looks fine, apart from some silicone rubber residues, and I have taken the one bearing shell off. The lower bearing has a couple of smooth spots, but nothing through the whitemetal, and no sign that this may have caused the seizure. The other conrod sits in a bit ackward position, but I will try and get that bearing out too. Somehow I think they might be OK. What else can cause the motor to seize. Camshaft. Timing chain. Flywheel. Alternator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Guido, did you make sure to have the clutch (that you said you know is working now) pulled-in when you tried to move the flywheel? Just checkin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callison Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 The motor does not turn with screwdriver on starter ring gear. I have dropped the sump, everything looks fine, apart from some silicone rubber residues, and I have taken the one bearing shell off. The lower bearing has a couple of smooth spots, but nothing through the whitemetal, and no sign that this may have caused the seizure. The other conrod sits in a bit ackward position, but I will try and get that bearing out too. Somehow I think they might be OK. What else can cause the motor to seize. Camshaft. Timing chain. Flywheel. Alternator? A backed out clutch plate bolt will feel like a seized engine. If it will turn a bit in gear going backward, that would be a pretty good indication for that problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garsdad Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 The motor does not turn with screwdriver on starter ring gear. I have dropped the sump, everything looks fine, apart from some silicone rubber residues, and I have taken the one bearing shell off. The lower bearing has a couple of smooth spots, but nothing through the whitemetal, and no sign that this may have caused the seizure. The other conrod sits in a bit ackward position, but I will try and get that bearing out too. Somehow I think they might be OK. What else can cause the motor to seize. Camshaft. Timing chain. Flywheel. Alternator? piston, mains, ??? will it move backwards? can you move it with the clutch pulled in? Oh, the fun and joy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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