Guest Gary Cheek Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 It's not submerged on the V11. On earlier models it was, but nowadays with these-here modern machines, you can access the oil filter directly. On the bottom of the oil pan is a "manhole cover". Remove that (a 22 or 24mm bolt head fits it...same size as the axle nut, I think), and use an appropriate tool to reach up and unscrew the filter. Sorry I don't remember- I just got back from 5 hours riding and I'm cold as heck. Cant' think straight. Some people (like me) just advocate removing the pan entirely. That way, you can see if there is any particulates that are just swimming around in the oil. Doesn't happen often, but sometimes you find a bit of gasket sealant.... Just a note, I beleive the manhole takes a 27mm hex tool. I can make one for you. I also make up a filter tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeBenGuzzi Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Just a note, I beleive the manhole takes a 27mm hex tool. I can make one for you. I also make up a filter tool. Any chance you have more of those little filter dealies? I'd buy one! within reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crooz Posted October 30, 2006 Author Share Posted October 30, 2006 WHAT A FREAKIN JOB !!! Geezz. I just tried my first sump pan clean & oil change. Could they have made this more difficult... placing hex screws in the same location at the drain plug so that you hex won't align into the bolt head without removing the plug! ANd making the hose hexs so that you can't get a freakin wrench on this without the pan fins stoping you! Anyay, I get all the way around loosening the sump pan bolts. I notice that some break loose very easily and another section of them actually POP when they break loose as they required more pressure. I get to the last one (back right hand side). It won't budge and the hex appears to start rotating inside the head of the bolt. I STOP. Take it out double check my hex and get a new one that hopefully will be tighter. I take time to drive it in with careful taps from a small hammer. I try again. It won't budge ! I abandon the pan removal and retighten all the bolts (appearently the dealer that serviced this bike the first time also abandoned this process... that is why some bolt poped loose and other just came loose more easily). Now I have to remove the manhole and I haven't a wrench ! What a freaking job just to change oil ! Gotta clean up and go hunt or have make something to remove the manhole cover with! Geeezzzzz !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdude Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Personally I have never liked any members of the Page family ! Thanks for the info... tomorrow will be my first attempt and Guzzi maintenance. So the process is.... 1)Drain oil via rear sump pan drain plug. 2)remove sump pan. 3)change screw-on oil filter. 4)clean screen filter. 5)clean up sump pan bottom if necessary 6) make sure sump pan gasket looks OK. 7)reinstall pan then plug. 8)refill with Castrol Syntec 20W/50. 9)check oil level after running. 10)admire your work and feel proud. just a simple point: every step of your process should have a simple appendix. example: 2) remove sump pan 2B) open can of beer... and so on. Same appendix on every step. This will make Guzzi maintenance a lot more bearable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 WHAT A FREAKIN JOB !!! Geezz. I just tried my first sump pan clean & oil change. Could they have made this more difficult... placing hex screws in the same location at the drain plug so that you hex won't align into the bolt head without removing the plug! ANd making the hose hexs so that you can't get a freakin wrench on this without the pan fins stoping you! Anyay, I get all the way around loosening the sump pan bolts. I notice that some break loose very easily and another section of them actually POP when they break loose as they required more pressure. I get to the last one (back right hand side). It won't budge and the hex appears to start rotating inside the head of the bolt. I STOP. Take it out double check my hex and get a new one that hopefully will be tighter. I take time to drive it in with careful taps from a small hammer. I try again. It won't budge ! I abandon the pan removal and retighten all the bolts (appearently the dealer that serviced this bike the first time also abandoned this process... that is why some bolt poped loose and other just came loose more easily). Now I have to remove the manhole and I haven't a wrench ! What a freaking job just to change oil ! Gotta clean up and go hunt or have make something to remove the manhole cover with! Geeezzzzz !!! Crooz, ya gotta look at this as an opportunity to SAVE y'er Guzzi from the filthy paws of nitwits, man. Don't take y'er frustrations out on y'er Guzzi -- think of it as an intervention. Y'er in position now to take on a responsibility that has obviously been at least somewhat neglected by someone who didn't deserve to own and/or service this motorcycle. If it makes you feel any better, when I took ownership of my otherwise flawless Sport, one of the first items of attention was to have the sump off for a look at the screen. Out comes the drain plug -- along with all the sump threads and a gob of sealant. So off comes the sump and in goes a heli-coil. Within a few minutes, I already had it better than it came from Mandello! You gotta have the attitude that she's lucky to be in y'er well-motivated and capable hands now, my friend. Not sure wot y'er alignment problems with hex drives and socket head screws is, or wot y'er problem with access to the oil return line connection might be -- sounds like y'er not using the correct tools f'er the job. . . . There aren't any such situations on my Guzzi, nor any Guzzi's I know of -- and I just finished doing 2 of 'em last weekend, getting Roper plates installed. From y'er frustration, I suspect it might be a function of perspective?? If I may suggest a few things: 1. Don't let a little thing like a stripped-out socket head bolt cause you to neglect removing the sump like it apparently did the PO/service Nincompoop, and f'er God's sake don't put y'erself in the same category! If you need to, use an impact driver with the proper extraction bit. In the unlikely event that this should tear up the head of the socket bolt and you have to as a last resort, drill the head off, remove the sump, and grab the shank of the bolt with vice-grips, and Bob's y'er Uncle. I wouldn't expect this at all, but in absolutely the worst case -- drill out the bolt in the case and use an EZ-out to get it out. I've done all of these things in worse situations than upside-down under a Guzzi (try upside-down, head down, feet up, in the INSUFFERABLY TIGHT, AIRLESS SPACE under an auxiliary motor in the stinkin' bilge of a sailboat on a blistering hot, humid day!), and none of 'em are all that difficult as long as you keep y'er cool, man. With proper procedure going forward, nothing like it will ever happen again, and you'll have a far easier, smoother routine down-pat for service down the road. 2. If y'er using Craftsman allen wrenches and/or socket-head drives, or any other kind and they appear to be the slightest bit rounded off from wear, take 'em all and either pitch 'em in the round file, or set 'em all together as far back in a dark hole as you can so's not to be tempted to ever use 'em again on y'er Guzzi, and get y'erself a decent set of sharp new allen wrenches of high grade hardened tool steel -- none o' the cheesy imported garbage. Craftsman allen wrenches and drives are notoriously undersized, and are known to instantly root stubborn socket head bolts, creating the very situation that you find y'erself in today. FWIW, I found a high quality set of allens that I like very much for the Guzzi because they have extra-long handles that're great for both leverage and long reach. They're made by Bondhus. 3. If y'er dead set on leaving the sump removal for "later" (in other words, putting off the necessary and inevitable ), you can achieve a quick and easy removal of the manhole cover with a nut run up hard & tight to the head of a 27 mm hex bolt as a tool. A better quick and relatively easy alternative (my own choice) is to get a 27 mm nut welded flat to the end of a 12" steel strap, which costs a few bucks at y'er local welding shop and makes a perfectly functional manhole cover tool, as long as tool esthetics ain't y'er first priority. Take it easy, my friend. Take y'er time. Build a vision for y'erself of a well-maintained and properly running Guzzi, work toward maintaining that vision, and she'll reward you in spades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crooz Posted October 30, 2006 Author Share Posted October 30, 2006 I have now spent nearly 5 hours and 40 miles in trips to the store, and still no oil changed !!!! I decided to leave the sump pan on until I can get an expert at stuck bolt removal to tackle it in a shop. So i go to the auto parts store and get 5 different oil filter wrenchs just knowing when I returned home the filter removal would be a breeze. To my surprice none of the 5 new tools fit the freakin filter! They are either slightly too small, possibly the right size but a different number of flut or slightly to large! I have now tried 6 of these and nothing fits !!! Does anyone have any idea of a proper wrench size and flute # ? The filter is white in color but I do not know its the brand. I'm liken this Guzzi less and less each hour! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Crooz, me friend! Have a break and a brew. Life is good. Guzzi's are, after all, easier to work on than just about any bike on the planet. Perspective, my friend! If you think an oil change and filter is a chore on a Guzzi, consider my Yamaha XT600, or any one of a number of others that require far more time & effort! If this experience is takin' the shine off y'er Guzzi, may I suggest that y'er reasons may be misplaced, my yet-to-be properly initiated Guzzi Bruddah? After all, it would appear that y'er frustrations are more properly placed on circumstances, lack of knowledge, and the previous maintenance (or rather, lack thereof) than on the Guzzi, n'est-ce pas? It's a bit of a challenge to ID an oil filter by its color. If I may make a suggestion, count the flutes on the filter cannister thru the manhole cover (yeah, I know this ain't a joy) and match 'em up by number to the socket. Failing an ability to match the filter up with a socket, I was able to get one out one time by sticking an open needle-nose pliers into holes I'd punched in the bottom of a filter with an awl, and used the pliers handles to spin it off. Steady, Crooz. . . . . breathe easy. . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastguzzi Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 A bit of perspective is required. Dropping the sump and doing the whole oil change job is actually easy and straightforward. If someone has messed-up on the bolts, it shouldn't be too difficult to remedy. But the basic fact is that it's not at all difficult to drain the oil, screw out the allen bolts and drop off the pan. So once the mess-up is solved, whatever it is, put it back together properly with anti-seize and it should always be an esy enough job in future. If the dealer couldn't manage to something as basic as this – uh oh..... warning bells! Don't know why you can't get allen keys at the heads. As Ratchet says, maybe you just need different tools. Have you got fittings for a ratchet (again no pun intended) drive? That makes the job easier, especially if some bolts are tight. Have a look through old threads on the filter and oil change. There's plenty of info here on options for holding the filter. Obviously you need one that is the right size and shape for this filter, if you're going at it through the filter cover. Easiest thing is – take the sump off It's only a temporary set-back. Things like this may need sorted (especially on second-hand machinery) at the beginning, but then it will be easier all the other times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crooz Posted October 30, 2006 Author Share Posted October 30, 2006 OK... no luck... so i just went ahead and refilled with fresh oil, and cleaned up my mess. I will worry about the solutions in say 2500 miles. My friend came by and he or I could identify a way to remoe the filter with the risk of damage to it, as as that was an uncertainty I didn't wish to proceed as I had no way to get the pan off at this time. I did discover that the filter appears to have 8 flutes. I tried to mark each with magic marker as I viewed them while using my flashlight to peer into the darkness of the sump. White filter with 8 flutes... anybody got any ideas as to it model and make so i can find a wrench next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastguzzi Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Use the intervening time to get hold of a proper filter (and that might be what you have anyway) and then you'll be able to find a removal tool that fits, at your leisure. Then get the stuck bolt out (Nogbad's method, drill it out, whatever) and fix that situation. Then when you're ready, drop the sump so that you've got plenty of room to remove the current filter by any means (strap, chain, clamp, screwdriver if you're careful...). Then you can start afresh with things sorted. Just don't make the mistake of ordering Guzzi's own tool. I did that (before I got the bike and entered Guzzi ownership) without knowing the price. It was over £60 - which is totally mind-boggling. I haven't recovered yet. Edit: filter tool was £69 MG workshop manual was ...............£107!!!!! (and it's not even for the exact model of bike) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badmotogoozer Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 I feel your pain! I bought every stinkin filter wrench for each make of filter available in hopes of finding a combination that works. All have been flung to a corner of the shop. Now I just pull the pan and punch a screwdriver through the bottom 1/3 of the filter and twist off old school. That custom wrench earlier looks like it might be a winner though... Haven't tried it and my screwdriver has yet to frustrate me. Getting the bolt out - do it now. Any destructive means possible if necessary. When taking off the sump it is important to just crack each bolt before removing it. If you take them out individually the last couple will be under a severe torquing force from the weight of the pan and will strip before cracking. Buy a new sump gasket and a set of valve cover gaskets. You should be able to reuse the old ones several times but eventually they tear. Much easier to just grab your spare from the drawer than drive to the dealer (who is always closed for two days when you need him). May the force be with you Skygoozer! Rj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crooz Posted October 30, 2006 Author Share Posted October 30, 2006 Thanks to everyone for helping me thru my first Guzzi crisis. It is much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard100t Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Hmm as for the filter removal I dont know what its called but it fits on the end of a ratchet & looks kind of like a large socket. That works well for me, oh btw I use a SuperTech oil filter from WalMart #st3614 for about $2 if that helps any. Its always good to start the filter by hand & I just hand tighten it. I only use the tool when its time to remove the filter. I know some filters dont fit the type of tool I mentioned thats why I put in the type of filter I use. Of course now that I think about it, check the tool & filter before you change the oil so that when its time to remove the filter you'll know the tool will fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard100t Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 OK I see that you have a stuck bolt. What you need to do is first try to cut a slot in it with a dremel & a cutting wheel tool. If you can break it loose with a screwdiver problem solved. If not cut the head clean off. Remove all the other bolts, slide the sump off. Grab the protruding threads of the damaged bolt with a pair of vice grips & turn. With the sump off there should be no pressure holding the bolt in. Btw before you do this take a bolt from the sump to the hardware store & get a matching bolt to replace the one you're going to cut off. Its generally good advice to just slightly loosen each bolt one at a time until they are all loose before you pull them completely out. That sump is pretty heavy & if you have it hanging down at any angle it will cause the remaing bolts to bind, or behave as a wedge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gary Cheek Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Wow and to think , I love Guzzis for their utter simplicity!! After all these years I am almost afraid to work on one now that I have read this. The UFI filter is 8 sided and 73mm across flats. Other filters vary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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