radguzzi
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Posts posted by radguzzi
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Cool.
I retrieved the starter from Gene the Starter Guy. He cleaned the commutator and solenoid, there was a great deal of oil residue and build up of gunk that was getting into the solenoid can intermittently stopping the current from offering full trust to the flywheel. If I understand him correctly...No unglued magnets.I do not see oil from either the engine rear main or trans front seal looking into the starter opening on the engine however, the gunk-up solenoid was the issue. Twenty-on year old Guzzi...I have cycled the starter thirty (30) times and it does not fail to start... I shut the engine off by both the ignition switch and the kill switch, and turned the bars left to right repeatedly looking for wire strain in the switch, it always started.Thanks much for the assistance here.You guys are the best.Rob-
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32 minutes ago, docc said:
Yeah, I recall there is "some disassembly required" to get to the magnets . . .
At which point the inspection will be telling. This starter was locked:
See, just as happy that I did not go all cowboy on this and pull the starter apart. If it were mine I would but for fear of causing more damage, I decided to go for a blast and drop it off with Gene.
Thanks docc...
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1 hour ago, audiomick said:
I read about that here just the other day. If I remember correctly, one can remove the back end / cover and look in.
No, at least not this one, a Valeo. I pulled the rear cap off and had a peek, two sets of brushes and the associated coiled up wires. I did not dare go any farther for fear of little bits flying all over the place.
I wish I had taken a photo or two for the record of the repair.
Gene tells me that the solenoid is not straight forward to remove and service, there are two bolts holding it in place, one is accessible from outside the case, the other is inside which forces disassembly of the starter.
More later. Thanks audiomick.
rad__
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I dropped the starter off with Gene, the starter repair guy. It bench tested great of course, no load from a flywheel to stop it.
He did go on to say it still May be a magnet or two has come undone... I should have it back in a day or so.
Back soon,
rad___
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I pulled the starter off, I cannot recall what I did when the magnets came unglued on the Quota, years ago. I think Gene the starter guy did the repair...
Is disassembly a big ta-do...? Does the starter come apart by removing those three screws on the Bendix end...? Any cautions in pulling it apart...?
I pulled the other end cap and there are brushes and all kinds of little bits in there...!
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41 minutes ago, docc said:
10-4,
I may have mentioned that my 2000 Quota had the magnets come unglued but that just stopped, quite abruptly. Boom, done.
Ok, going in.. or off actually. I do not recall whether I replaced the starter or had the local generator/starter/alternator repair guy repair it.
BTW, yes, the battery is staying up during all this.
Appreciate the assist, docc,
Rob
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That was a read...! Wow...!
Ok, I'll pop that ignition switch out and have a peek. It makes sense that wire strain "Could" be the issue although only one time did the starter button go from clicking to starting the engine by turning the front end left to right...
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6 hours ago, docc said:
That main ground is just a little fiddly, but worth the effort to remove, scrape/roughen the surfaces, seal with Vaseline® or Caig DeOxit®.
Probably going to be considering the Ignition Switch next . . .
Well. the main ground was not a tight as I would have expected AND the mating surface on the trans had Paint on it, black paint. I was so hopeful that the issue had been found.
No. Back to being Mr. Intermittent. At first attempt the familiar click happened, second try she started right up. THird time, click...
So :
1 / What am I bound to find or actually look for and test for in the ignition switch...?
2 / Is this an obvious candidate or the Startus Interruptus Fix Kit from MPH...?
Edit:
I guess to put a finer point on that second question.. Is there testing I can do to prove that any particular component(s) are faulty...?Thanks,
rad__
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10-4
I should be able to get at the ground later today... fiddly as in hard to get at...? Or get back on...?
I did have the presence of mind to back the V11 up onto the lift so that I could get to the ignition switch if need be. Premonition...?
More later,
Thanks much
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34 minutes ago, docc said:
So, jumper test: next . . .
Yup, done. The starter spins as it should. So, "Things" it is... We are in the middle of a painting project so I'll get back to the LeMans later today and check on the main ground.
Gaining...
Thanks
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On 3/24/2023 at 8:05 PM, docc said:
If the battery is an Odyssey PC545 (OEM), then it should be properly "conditioned" at 12.65 volts (12.84 is 100%). If it drops below 10 volts when the starter tries to engage, it may be toast. There is a date code on it if it's a PC545. (What kind of battery is it?)
edit: It occurs to me for you to put a jump wire on the starter solenoid and touch it to the battery positive. MAKE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN the bike is in neutral, ignition off. Just looking for the starter to spin. If it does, then it is not the starter or the battery, but "things" in between.
Two things...
1/ - Is the PC 545 the correct Odyssey or the V11...? I use a much larger Odyssey on the EVs and the V1000 Convert.
2/ - Which contact on the starter solenoid...? The lug with the nut or the blade with a connector...? If it is the blade, should the connector be taken off..?
Thanks,
rad__
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17 minutes ago, docc said:
Not at all. But 12.04 volts for an AGM is ded, Jim. The Odyssey would require "conditioning" to restore. Not sure what to do with that battery except go by the manufacturer's charging recommendation.
The Odyssey would never recover without charging it with 6 or more amps.
EDIT: HOLD THE PHONE! That battery states : "Must be mounted in the upright position. "
Regarding the battery recovering, that is not down too far at 12.04, below that would certainly require a longer charge.
I cannot believe that the owner and I have missed that statement. I'll give it one more good charge and when the ground is clean I'll let him know that prolly should get a new battery.
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52 minutes ago, docc said:
What kind of battery is it? AGM, and Odyssey in particular, have specific charging parameters.
This...
I use Odessey batteries in three of my cycles and I have the correct charger for them. It comes up to green on the charge scale in good time, I am not certain why it discharged to 12.04 so quickly, possibly due to my trying to start it for two days...lol
Does that 230CCA seem too low to you...?
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I put a meter on the battery while cranking, the battery had been depleted to about 12.04 at rest and under cranking it dipped to 10.33.
What is that telling me...?
=====================
Also, I have not yet tried the jumper. I'll put the battery on a tender for the night and do that in the AM, after checking the main ground.
Diggin' the troubleshooting.
rad__
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Yup, I have heard about tank swell. I had a 2007 Norge from new and never experienced that malady, a friend here did with a 2010-ish V7 II or III. Not pleasant.
Lets go with the lift the tank slightly and call it good. But, I will try removing the seat latch first.
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You guys are the best,
Thanks for the images docc.
Yeah, hoping to not remove the tank. My guess is that the tank has either never been off or it has been some time since. Good and stuck.
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You guys are gonna kill me... In an effort to chase down a non starting issue on the V11 I need to get at the main ground mounting to check it, clean it etc...
The side covers seem to be captured by the rear of the fuel tank and I cannot pull them off to try and find the ground mounting point. That leads me to ask how the heck do I pull that tank up enough to pull the covers, three small Allen head screws have been removed. I find the rear tank mount bolt and have no idea how to release the front of it.
Does it rest in rubber discs up front and simply pull up and back as most Guzzis do...? My apologies, the LeMans is not mine, helping a friend out hopefully and I do not have a Tech Manual.
Thanks for any assistance here,
Rob
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I am the one from Maine that contacted Kim at MPH... and I am not yet certain whether this LeMans requires the kit, still troubleshooting...
I'd like to get back to the initial subject. Any opinion about whether the "tapping the starter" routine indicates a certain condition or state of the starter..?
Thanks,
Rob
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Well, this falls in the no s**t ..? category.
We are in the middle of a huge painting project so I can only steal away for short burst of time. This morning the V11 did not start, and I was preparing to do the jumper wire from the solenoid to the + battery side and I had the brilliant thought (rare) to try the old "tap the end of the starter" like you would on the old '63 Chevy trick...
I started right up. I did this several times, starting the engine and shut it down until it would not start again, repeat the tap and boom, starts.
Now I will say that on one occasion of the starter button only offering up the Click of the replay, I pushed it a few times and that brought the starting.
I had thought that the tapping on the starter was a sure sign that the starter has a sticking Bendix or needed a cleaning but this episode of hitting the button several times put a wrench in that...
Hints...?
I cannot get back out to the garage for a bit, later tonight.
Rob
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1 hour ago, docc said:
Well, it's not the clutch bullet connectors. More like not enough current.
You had said the battery is 12.65v (85% for an AGM). What does the voltage read when it tries to engage the starter?
Certainly, it could be the starter magnets have come loose. Yet, I would thoroughly clean and service the main ground at the back of the gearbox on the right as well as both of the starter fastening bolts and where the starter seats against the gearbox to ensure the grounding path is solid.
I have not taken a reading while cranking.. ahh when it does lol
I had checked the charging across the battery while it was running a couple of days ago. I'll check the cranking volts with assistance from wife, Sue.. Is 12.65 too low for that battery...?
Also do the ground, that was next, and I ran out of time this afternoon, lot goin' on... Bummer about the starter mounting bolts, I Just had the cover off and moved the shock reservoir to clean the positive lug. I will be able to do that again quicker this time.
Any thoughts on the clutch lever cut out...?
I had a 2000 Quota that lost its magnets and that just jammed them against the starter case and locked up the starter. This V11 still does run so there's that...
Thanks,
rad__
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4 hours ago, p6x said:
Are the symptoms identical to those in the video below?
No sir. More like this... The non starting situation here is Directly after having started and then shutting it down.
On another attempt, I turned the bars left to right and on the swing at about 2 o'clock to the right there was a moment of cranking and then back to clicking, no start.Is that a hint...? Can it be the ignition switch or the aforementioned bullet connectors under the tank. God forbid...
Edit:
I had just finished removing positive connection on the starter, cleaning it and putting it ack on.
rad__
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So in typical fashion, the V11 will not exhibit any non-starting issues this AM. Dash and gauge lights are on and fuel pump, friggin' thing fires right up, repeatedly. Tried it four times...!
I'll still go check and clean all contacts before doing any major dismantling.
Oh, I did not check for a side stand cutout switch but I will, assume there is one, many other Guzzis do. Are these troublesome on the V1s also...?
@audiomick,Did you find any issues with the bullet connectors under the tank...?
I sent a note to MPH asking about availability of the Startus Interruptus fix kit and no replay yet, I'll give a call later today.
Thanks all,
rad__
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1 hour ago, audiomick said:
Have a look here. Mine (also a 2002/2003 Le Mans) doesn't always start on the first push of the button. There's a click, the dashboard lights dim, and that's all. After a few attempts, it will start.
Some good tips came up in the thread:
https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/topic/28565-starter-button/
To help in solving your problem, what exactly happens when you press the starter button and it wont start? Nothing at all, there is a click and the lights dim but the start motor doesn't turn? When you turn on the ignition, do you hear the fuel pump kick in?
I'll take a look at that topic and go pay close attention to what all goes on when the key is turned. I do always hear the fuel pump, when the starter does not engage I do hear the clicking of a relay, I will check on whether the lights dim or not.
Thanks, back soon,
rad
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Hey,
A friend dropped his 2002 V11 LeMans off here asking if I would track down the reason for the intermittent starting, actually, not starting.I had seen posts about the subject on other forums some time ago regarding the Norge and possibly others. A search has a myriad of different threads but some of that is hard to follow and use for diagnosis of this Guzzi.
The symptoms are an on and off starting situation. It will start, shut it down and it will not start immediately afterward. Just odd.
Battery is good, holds charge and shows 12.65 at rest, load test indicates good. I will check the grounds, starter positive cable connections, what else...?
Are starter switches notorious for failure...? Ignition switches...?
Appreciate any assistance here.
Thanks,
rad__
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Is there a condensed thread about Startus Interruptus...?
in Technical Topics
Posted
Yup, same here. The starter guy said it was wet so oil for sure. Along with just plain gunk. Over time they just get full of stuff, some of that must be clutch wear...?
You bring up a good point regarding oil level. This one, as it sits is not too high but who knows the case history over the past twenty-one years. I always encourage owners to run the level between the hi and lo marks. A tell-tale of over filling is excess oil draining from the filter box and gummed up throttle bodies.
All good now.
Cheers,
Rob