Bjorn
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Posts posted by Bjorn
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Im more concerned about the whole pipe diameter topic. I dont think I follow you on the 2-1 muffler dia should or can be identical to a 2-1-2. The headers will join in one pipe and flow towards the muffler. Doesn't that mean the amount of gases multiplies by 2 compared to the 2-1-2?
Looking at the stock set-up each cylinder basically has its own muffler. taking the stock collector in mind, you could even say every exhaust pulse from one cylinder can divide over the 2 mufflers, can you not?
To me it sounded plausible to choose a muffler with a large® volume/pipe diameter, because more gases go trough. But maybe i overlooked something here....
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Hi,
Yeah the bike is already back together. I looked at the parts book, and saw both bolts have a different p/n. Cant understand why, never paid to much attention to the bolts but they looked identical to me. The other part is stated as: bolt M10x69 (mm) (p/n GU30357800). Seems like a standard metric bolt although i cant find the pitch.
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Looks fancy! A/F logger?
Called a tuner today who knows something about Guzzi's. I asked him some questions about my new exhaust set-up. Things I should pay attention to. This is a summary:
(maybe a open door for some)
- Make sure the pipe diameter after the collector is large enough.
- Choose a muffler with a large pipe diameter (65 to 70mm)
- choose a muffler with a large volume in order to dampen the noise a bit.
- 2-1 is indeed suitable for the mid range.
I i do proceed i want to do it right. No point in building something just to find out on the bench its never going to work. He even suggested just buying other mufflers and get it tuned. But that sounds boring and I would like something ''different''
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You mean this stuff
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Its not easy (and not my cup of tea ). I already changed the Fuel map to eliminate the annoying hiccups around 3000 rpm and small throttle openings. Id rather be building a exhaust than fiddeling with FI
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Im aware that power can be gained or lost. And although the GPR system doesnt look bad. I enjoy building stuff myself, and gaining knowledge about it. Im not that old (23) so i dont know shit, but since I started to mess with bikes myself, I did learn a lot of things! From welding to leaning how to machine parts with a lathe or mill. Things I would never have learned by only buying parts (no offense).
I made a quick overview of the parts I need and what it will cost:
- 2x 45mm thin walled-tube with a 90dgr bend (€50)
- 2x +/- 60mm thin walled-tube with a 90dgr bend (€60)
- a muffler of choise
(+/- €180) Here a two i got my eyes on:
1:
2: part reflection part absorption. able to change inserts for my preference (noise level)
And i want the muffler to be more up high compared to the low mounted originals. I want to start soon, spring has arrived
Besides after building i need to get the fuel injection part sorted.-
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The GPR set-up is the way I want to build it. Im curious about the sound SP838, did you do a sound check?
Books/literature are great! Maybe i can find something similar here in Europe. Or somebody has it in a digital form?
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A well designed two into one system will have a larger area under the power curve. A two into two system might make more peak power but likely less power everywhere else.
with this, do you mean more grunt from lowdown in the RPM band? Because thats what i use most during my rides.
Another benefit of a 2-1 is the fact that i only need one muffler, saving me some money.
@Don, I found something on their site. Only one small picture unfortunately
380 B pounds still sounds like a lot of money. I guess I prefer building something myself, hopefully learning something in the process. Thanks for sharing though! -
Hi!
I've been having this idea to change the exhaust set-up on my bike for a while now. Looking at a lot of pictures to get some ideas, I think i want to build a 2 in 1 exhaust. I have build some exhausts before but these where more ''form over function'' (i guess
). So before i start building and go through the hassle of dialing everything in, I would like to hear some experiences and feedback on the exhaust setting.Dont get me wrong, i really like the looks of the original mufflers. However i do miss some ''sound'' in the low RPMs, and wont miss the weight of the original set-up. So here what i'm aiming for:
- Increase ride-ability, especially in the low/mid range. Not looking for max HP here!
- Deep exhaust tone, NOT racing loud. I use the bike every day.
- Keep the original headers.
- from the headers, fab a 2 in 1 piece where the original crossover is located (under the gearbox).
- go left or right to a aftermarket muffler.
Here some examples (who doesnt love pictures of pretty guzzis
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nevermind the header set-up on this last bike. (but gorgeous nevertheless)
Things I would like some input on:
- Dont know what the 2 in 1 will do to the exhaust sound/note?
- I know there is a lot of black magic involved with exhaustsystems, gasflow, pipe diameter, length, etc. anyone a idea what the difference is between 2-1-2 vs. 2-1? Again, im looking for a nice sound and good ride-ability.
Edit: fixed the layout
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Haha, nothing you cant fix with a hammer
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O and last but not least, the needle bearing that started this thread.
Here the old and new needle inner bushing, quite a difference huh
ill check back in (hopefully) lots of miles later
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Time to wrap this up. I got all my parts together and finished most of it last weekend. I had the swingarm coated black since its covered by the hugger anyways.
I bought the swingarm bearing online, way cheaper than the ''official'' guzzi stuff. The part number can be seen in the picture below.
In order to protect the coating of the swingarm and other parts from all the debris of the road, I made two aluminum covers.
The mounted pictures arent to good, but the idea is clear.
And thats it for the ''swingarm chapter''
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Since I got the box of anyway, and the paint wasnt looking very ''crisp'' I decided this was a good time to paint the thing. Sanding was a real pain in the
due to all the nooks and crannies. The oil residue wasnt helping either. 
I bought some 2K primer and paint in a aerosol can. Never used 2k before but so far, im happy with the result. Painted some parts for my other bike as well, since you can only use the paint for a short while after mixing.
Time will tell how long it will last.
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Yeah i went to TLM. I was amazed they employed around 4 mechanics, doing only guzzis. I was told they are over 30 years in business, they must be doing something right
And a big plus for me is they stock a lot of parts/spares. -
He used the blocks to remove the crownwheel from the carrier. Just by using a nylon hammer.
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Yes I do
Thanks to the factory original paint markings hehe. The mechanic also told me the couplings have to be in the same plane. Which is the most important thing when putting the two parts together. He added, you should not put to much grease on the spline bit. Too much grease causes air to get trapped inside, forcing the front part of the shaft towards the gearbox applying unnecessary force.In the meanwhile I bought some decent 2k primer and paint in a aerosol can. Very curious to try it out on the bevelbox.
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Today I visited the largest Guzzi shop in The Netherlands. The mechanics were helpful and allowed me to watch the whole thing
After opening the box, the first thing he noticed was the corrosion (what was left of it) at the crown wheel axle. The picture below shows how I found it after opening the box for the first time:
I already removed most of the rust at home, but he told me it wasn't good enough. The corrosion had caused pitting on the axle, he sanded/polished everything smooth with the crown wheel mounted in the lathe. This was necessary because it could damage the internal seal and cause leakage. He polished the other side of the axle as well. This side contacts the large seal on the wheel side of the box.
Just like Andy, he advised me to replace both the seals. Since I was there anyway, he changed them both. Paying special attention to the smaller seal, due to removing some material of the axle he tightened the spring of the seal to ensure proper contact .
Finally he looked into the clearance between the crown and pinion. First thing he did was pressing the crown all the way into the bearing/cover by using a large press. He checked the play of the pinion and the wear of both gears, everything was OK. Finally he reassembled the box and a bit of clearance between crown and pinion could be felt. It doesn't need a whole lot of play, just enough to prevent rapid wear of the gears. The shim was not changed as everything should be ok for a lot of miles
Next up: painting the box....
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The big needle bearing and seal below it, look and feel fine. I removed all the rust on top of the crownwheel axel before reassembly. Cant imagen this bearing has moved due to taking her apart.
If the guzzi-man highly recommends me to change it, i will. Otherwise it will stay in there.
I dont plan to remove the actual pinion. I saw pete's thread. Besides i did not find any dissturbing axial or radial play.
I just want to document everything, it might help others someday.
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Have you looked up the prices for the components? In case you ruin something you'd better go for a used bike to slaughter than for spares from a dealer
Hubert
This is part of the paranoia hehe.
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Haha its what you want to see
so butter it is.Yes it all makes sense, no oil etc. im thinking the same way. I hit it pretty hard, and dont want to damage anything. Im not sure if the big bearing between crownwheel and carrier is mounted against a flange or not. Can the bearing shift and force the seal out of the carrier? The drawings dont show enough details.
But sometimes the paranoia wins it over common sense... I will take the box to a guzzi specialist next Friday.
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Dont forget there could be some play in other parts (driveshaft couplings etc). But I dont have any play at the moment.
I did not forget any parts of left out spacer ''25''
The thickness i have in the box is either 0,9mm or 1,0mm. The parts list shows shims up to 1,2mm. However as Hubert has pointed out, there is also a shim on the pinion. This has also influence on the clearance between the gears.Since i dont have any experience on this subject, at the moment im strongly leaning towards a guzzi garage.
ps: thanks for thinking with me everyone!
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Im not a believer of '' if it aint broke dont fix it''. However, not knowing everything does give you a peace of mind (maybe somewhat false
).The video was made with a mobile phone and w/o oil in the box. The sound may sound a bit ''dramatic'' because of this. But nevertheless, a cyclic sound can be heard....
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Dont know if this works, but here is a link to the video:
https://picasaweb.google.com/116579552244876924833/Video#5977374150817279106
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I am 100% sure, i left nothing out of the assembly.
I just took the crownwheel out of the box. I measured the distance between the crownwheel and the carrier where its mounted in. Took a hammer and gave it a couple of good hits. It did go down 0,5mm compared to the situation after disassembly. I refitted the ring washer and remounted the box.
Same result as before. I also made 2 videos where i rotate the pinion etc. Once i figure out how to upload it without the whole google+ cr*p I will put a link down here.
since it is still somewhat winter and i have all the parts off the bike, im seriously thinking about visiting the Guzzi garage. Hoping they can shine some light on this and help me out a bit..
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I know
The ''hitting the bench method'' did not seem to work. I will find out if the ''hammer method'' yield beter results.
Fabricating a 2-1 exhaust
in Technical Topics
Posted
Clear on the 2-1 muffler volume
As for the second part, Sounds like you know one or two things about exhaust-systems. I understand the part about the exhaust-pulses of the engine not happening at the same time. However the ''peaks & waves'' are still kind of hard to get my head round.
If the 2-1 set-up does not result in a loss of ride-ability or lots of power i guess im a happy camper
At the moment im trying to find a suitable muffler. Not as easy as you think without seeing them in real life. It stays a bit of a gamble, same story with the noise it will produce in the end. The collector I will probably build myself so it fits my needs.
The first exhaust modification is already done. During the winter i removed the balance-pipe between the headers. I tried several different solutions to keep it from rattling/leaking. Nothing worked properly so i decided to remove it. Ive been riding around 300km since, no noticeable difference in performance or smoothness.