belfastguzzi Posted April 23, 2009 Author Share Posted April 23, 2009 "notched side facing related rocker" s/b "grooved end toward rockers" from what I make of the issue. Seems pretty obvious in the Guzzi-supplied pic: the dumbells have a groove machined on one end near the pivot "ball," and these ends are both up toward the valve rockers in the pic. ,,,,in this case, a pic is worth probably 10,000 words! Piaggio tech-pic update: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete roper Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 "notched side facing related rocker" s/b "grooved end toward rockers" from what I make of the issue. Seems pretty obvious in the Guzzi-supplied pic: the dumbells have a groove machined on one end near the pivot "ball," and these ends are both up toward the valve rockers in the pic. The usual machine-translated Italian is certainly no help: in this case, a pic is worth probably 10,000 words! I did the full bananna on my bike today and yes, there are machined grooves in the top of the rods. I have to say I have no idea why No, I didn't put a micrometer on them to see of there was some sort of infinitesimal difference in the 'Bells' of the 'Dumb' but they looked identical. Another thought was that maybe at full lift the groove had been machined to allow clearance of the rocker edge. Nope! I can see no reason why they should have to be put in in any certain way but one has to presume the instruction means something so, simply, do as you're told!!!! (Shrug?) Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastguzzi Posted April 24, 2009 Author Share Posted April 24, 2009 I did the full bananna on my bike today and yes, there are machined grooves in the top of the rods. I have to say I have no idea why No, I didn't put a micrometer on them to see of there was some sort of infinitesimal difference in the 'Bells' of the 'Dumb' but they looked identical. Another thought was that maybe at full lift the groove had been machined to allow clearance of the rocker edge. Nope! I can see no reason why they should have to be put in in any certain way but one has to presume the instruction means something so, simply, do as you're told!!!! (Shrug?) Pete Hi Pete have you heard any more news on the grapevine about this whole situation? Any sign that Piaggio is considering the further issues of damaged bikes? Any other reports circulating, such as the one that J-M mentioned above? I am writing to 'Moto Guzzi' House in Kent UK, now, and will copy to Moto Guzzi Customer Care at CustomerService@piaggiogroup.com Those are the only contacts that I have been able to get. The Piaggio Group UK Aftersales Manager is being 'silent' on my concerns, just like the dealer who simply never gave any response. It's a pity that Guzzi / Piaggio don't seem to realise that we are the people who actually market and publicise and blow the trumpet for the marque. Moto Guzzi would be nowhere without a loyal customer base who are committed to the name and the machines, who spread pictures and enthusiastic stories, create magazines and websites, organise events and meetings... Their own publicity is essentially invisible. It's us who create the brand awareness. And it's us who have to provide our own After Care (particularly aided by a few individuals). So anyway, I'll try them one more time – any more info on other cases will be gratefully received. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete roper Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Hi Petehave you heard any more news on the grapevine about this whole situation? Any sign that Piaggio is considering the further issues of damaged bikes? Any other reports circulating, such as the one that J-M mentioned above? DAve, I know little. I probably am one of the more useful repositories of Guzzi lore and knowledge on the net but I'm not omnicient . (Otherwise I would of won $6 million on the lotto yesterday rather than $23.40 ). If I hear shit believe me I'll let you know but I'm afraid you're the 'Cutting Edge' on this one. The fact is a lot of people with both knowledge and experience have taken a look and found the whole situation wanting. As Mike Haven would say, "It's All Nuts and Bolts". There IS no magic or miracles, it is simply a series of parts made of stuff and fed oil by a pump or two while it works. Those parts are made of other 'Stuff' and is some of it fails it will have an effect on all the other bits. It's an internal combustion engine, not some sort of new motive engine that only works with superconductors at 3 degees above absolute zero. Somebody f@cked up. It's not your fault, the f@cker-uppers should be held accountable. This isn't the same situation as that whining 'Tard over on WG who is saying his bike is a bit of shit because he's buggerd about with some aspects and is unwilling to address others. This is a major problem that needs to be sorted properly. Your motor is toast. I'd challenge ANY engineer of principle to take one look at those cam journals and say otherwise. Piaggio HAS to do the right thing. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastguzzi Posted April 24, 2009 Author Share Posted April 24, 2009 DAve, I know little. I probably am one of the more useful repositories of Guzzi lore and knowledge on the net but I'm not omnicient . (Otherwise I would of won $6 million on the lotto yesterday rather than $23.40 ). If I hear shit believe me I'll let you know but I'm afraid you're the 'Cutting Edge' on this one. The fact is a lot of people with both knowledge and experience have taken a look and found the whole situation wanting. As Mike Haven would say, "It's All Nuts and Bolts". There IS no magic or miracles, it is simply a series of parts made of stuff and fed oil by a pump or two while it works. Those parts are made of other 'Stuff' and is some of it fails it will have an effect on all the other bits. It's an internal combustion engine, not some sort of new motive engine that only works with superconductors at 3 degees above absolute zero. Somebody f@cked up. It's not your fault, the f@cker-uppers should be held accountable. This isn't the same situation as that whining 'Tard over on WG who is saying his bike is a bit of shit because he's buggerd about with some aspects and is unwilling to address others. This is a major problem that needs to be sorted properly. Your motor is toast. I'd challenge ANY engineer of principle to take one look at those cam journals and say otherwise. Piaggio HAS to do the right thing. Pete Obviously I do think that this is something not to give-up on and give-in on. I was and am prepared to own a V11 without MG support. It's a 'previous generation' machine and can be fixed with a heavy hammer. It came from the factory with an axle-spacer that was the wrong size, which caused subsequent damage. It took more that a year, yes – more than a year, for that simple little part to be ordered under warranty and then arrive with me. But, hey, meantime I can got out the heavy hammer and made my own fix. It came from the factory with the wrong size of gear spring / pawl boss: but never mind... get out the hammer. It blew out through the defective chest gasket, etc etc. It's got one of those disintegrating flywheels... Joy But this is supposedly a new tarted-up era. On that basis I invested in the fancy, tarted up, new era machine. This time I can't and shouldn't have to disregard the factory after-care that should be available. I shouldn't have to throw away the warranty, take the bike off the road and break the engine apart myself. That's for sure – so what's the big deal here? Moto Guzzi are making a mountain for themselves, out of a molehill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete roper Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Spleen vented on this one over on Nutterboard Dave. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastguzzi Posted April 24, 2009 Author Share Posted April 24, 2009 Spleen vented on this one over on Nutterboard Dave. Pete How do you and others (Jaap?) feel about copying content off web posts and putting it into correspondence with Piaggio or anyone else - having removed all names and other identifying text. Although these posts are all public, is it a discourteous or dangerous thing to do? Are there privacy or data protection issues? Could there be any bad repercussions for individuals of the Forum itself? Perhaps I should create my own webpage for discussion and charting developments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete roper Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 How do you and others (Jaap?) feel about copying content off web posts and putting it into correspondence with Piaggio or anyone else - having removed all names and other identifying text.Although these posts are all public, is it a discourteous or dangerous thing to do? Are there privacy or data protection issues? Could there be any bad repercussions for individuals of the Forum itself? Perhaps I should create my own webpage for discussion and charting developments. Dave, despite my web presence nobody of importance could give even the mist microscopic od shits what my opinion is. Yes, I'm an 'Authorised Service Agent' but I reckon I give more good publicity for the marque I know and love than they could ever repay me for. If they decide to 'Cut me off' because I have 'TRANSGRESSED THE UNWRITTEN LAW!' So be it. It's no skin off my nose one way or another. I'm not always right but when I'm proven wrong I'm always happy to say so and won't bloviate and try to dodge the balme but I AM a competent tradesman and I can see a f@cked motor from half a world away if the pictures are good. From MY point of view unsourced material would hold no water. If you want to use me as a 'Source' feel free, just don't expect anybody who matters to pay the slightest bit of attention!!! Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Field Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Found out today that the original tappets were made of cast iron. The recall tappets are of hardened steel. I am guessing, but my guess is the real problem was more related to the bottom profile than the material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastguzzi Posted April 25, 2009 Author Share Posted April 25, 2009 Is there a change to the profile, as well as the material? Pete, did you take any photos of original and replacement parts for comparison, perchance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete roper Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 Is there a change to the profile, as well as the material? Pete, did you take any photos of original and replacement parts for comparison, perchance? I did take pics but they came out as sh!t. FWIW the tappets are dimensionally slightly different and the bases of them appear to either be a separate part, (Unlikely.) or they have been parkerized and polished. Nearly a mirror finish on'em. Like Greg I dont think the material was the problem so much as the hardening process and the radius. HArd to judge old against new but to my weedy, failing eye the new ones appear to have a n ever so slightly greater radius. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete roper Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 And just because I can I also offer you, on this board, the best pic I've deragged off the net in weeks. This is, by all accounts, a Piaggio board meeting! Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastguzzi Posted April 26, 2009 Author Share Posted April 26, 2009 And just because I can... The weirdest thing about that pic, is how you learnt to post pics from/to the interweb! Weird. Do you, by any chance, have a talented dog-goat-aroo helping in the technical dept? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete roper Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 The weirdest thing about that pic, ishow you learnt to post pics from/to the interweb! Weird. Do you, by any chance, have a talented dog-goat-aroo helping in the technical dept? Sorry, I lied. Here is footage of a Piaggioboard meeting on hearing ofthe problems of the 8V engine's top end.... Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastguzzi Posted April 26, 2009 Author Share Posted April 26, 2009 :!: ah, the wee critters fall like 8V tappets! You're watching web-videos of animals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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