Greg Field Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 If the piston came out of the master cylinder, you will likely need to rebuild or replace it. What happened to the ring or circlip that retains the piston? Did you replace it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard100t Posted April 15, 2009 Author Share Posted April 15, 2009 If the piston came out of the master cylinder, you will likely need to rebuild or replace it. What happened to the ring or circlip that retains the piston? Did you replace it? Ok Greg if Jaap hands out bonus points for good advice you should get a point here I didnt know there was a washer in there but since your post I removed the master from the bike & fished it out of there. Its a brass colored flat washer that you're talking about right? Anyway it was bent up so I gave it a few light taps with a hammer to re flatten in. I put it on the end of the piston, put the piston back in the cylinder & it kind of snapped right in place. I'm pretty certain this was the cause of that pfft noise while I was trying to bleed the line. Well I'm headed back out to the garage to put it all back together Wish me luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard100t Posted April 15, 2009 Author Share Posted April 15, 2009 Ok I've gotten the thing all back together & have been bleeding the line. I almost had it once! There was good pressure at the lever but the bike wouldnt roll in gear with the lever pulled in yet so I gave it a few more tries & somehow lost the pressure. Then I got it building back up again! Alas then I lost it again! lol However I'm in pretty good spirits because I know that it will work & I will get it right eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Richard, FWIW, Yoyodyne has rebuild kits for many of these at a nominal price, but you need to check carefully to match up the right one. Check their link here: http://www.yoyodyneti.com/category.aspx?categoryID=3016 It's pretty helpful, because it has photo's of the kit parts to help match you up properly. If you've got the same clutch master as mine, what you're looking for is the kit for the Brembo Gold Line inline cylinder series with 4-point adjustable gray levers. The masters may (or may not, depending on how the Luigi's mysterious supply lines were running at the time ) be the same as OE Ducati 748,851,888,916, and 955. The stamped numbers on the casting also tend to vary, and may or may not be of any help ID-ing what you need. (Thus the photo's on the Yoyo site). Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard100t Posted April 16, 2009 Author Share Posted April 16, 2009 Richard, FWIW, Yoyodyne has rebuild kits for many of these at a nominal price, but you need to check carefully to match up the right one. Check their link here: http://www.yoyodyneti.com/category.aspx?categoryID=3016 It's pretty helpful, because it has photo's of the kit parts to help match you up properly. If you've got the same clutch master as mine, what you're looking for is the kit for the Brembo Gold Line inline cylinder series with 4-point adjustable gray levers. These may be the same OE as Ducati 748,851,888,916, and 955. The stamped numbers on the casting vary greatly, and may or may not be of any help ID-ing what you need. (Thus the photo's on the Yoyo site). Good luck. I'm not experienced with master cylinders or bleeding lines, so enlighten me a little here please. When I pull the lever & open the bleeder, fluid does come out. At a few times when I was getting the pressure to build it was really squirting out. Does this mean that my master cylinder is still good, or could it be that its going bad because I cant get the pressure to stay up? I'm thinking that this is a problem of inexperience on my part. Before I gave up for the evening I took the bleeder off & put my finger over the hole while I pumped the lever & pressure does build at my finger although not at the lever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard100t Posted April 16, 2009 Author Share Posted April 16, 2009 I think this is the right rebuild kit from the link that you provided Ratchet. It sure does look like the parts that I just held in my brake fluid covered fingers lol. http://www.yoyodyneti.com/ProductInfo.aspx...tid=110.4362.52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Richard, you can squirt fluid out the bleeder even when there's a seal going bad. You should be able to get enough pressure with one pull of the lever to hold against the pressure of the clutch springs for lots longer than you can stand to hold the lever in. If it gradually bleeds off and the clutch begins to drag with the lever held in, you've got a leak somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 I think this is the right rebuild kit from the link that you provided Ratchet. It sure does look like the parts that I just held in my brake fluid covered fingers lol. http://www.yoyodyneti.com/ProductInfo.aspx...tid=110.4362.52 If it looks right, it probably is right. To make sure, measure the diameter of the piston. FWIW, my 2000 came with a clutch master stamped OC 15 12. I believe this is a 12 mm bore master, but have not measured it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard100t Posted April 16, 2009 Author Share Posted April 16, 2009 If it looks right, it probably is right. To make sure, measure the diameter of the piston. FWIW, my 2002 came with a clutch master stamped OC 15 12. I believe this is a 12 mm bore master, but have not measured it. Well I'll have to find a different place to get it because they are out of stock at that site. As long as I have the part # & description I can google a source or just call my dealer to get one. I'm still holding out hope that I can get it running by this weekend. The weather will be great here for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Field Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 If it's pumping and you truly got the retainer back in, it likely does not need a rebuild. We service maybe 100 SPorts, and not one has needed a m/c rebuild yet. Get a big syringe, and use it to bleed from the slave cylinder back to the master cylinder. Remove the line between the m/c and reservoir. Hook a tube up to it, and drape that tube into a catch bottle. Using the syringe, push fluid from the slave up through the line, through the m/c, and into the catch bottle. That'll likely fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard100t Posted April 16, 2009 Author Share Posted April 16, 2009 Alright I have achieved success with bleeding the line. The bike rides again. One thing that I took note of was the set screw in the lever that actuates the piston. I removed the retaining wire & turned it in, probably too much. Well now I'm going to fine tune that set screw & see if that solves my original problem. Many thanks go to Greg Field & Ratchet. Greg, you were right about the m/c...I took it back apart & reassembled it again today. Ratchet, you were right as well... Once I had the m/c assembled correctly it was really very easy to bleed the line. Just a few pumps & presto. Ok I'll keep you updated as to wether or not it was a m/c adjustment problem or a clutch problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard100t Posted April 17, 2009 Author Share Posted April 17, 2009 Well I'm done for the evening, but heres my impressions. I think the master cylinder needs rebuilt. A) I could hear the clutch dragging with the bike off & in 1st gear with the lever pulled in rolling it back & forth I had to adust the set screw all the way near the end before it would stop dragging at all. Once I did that the bike shifts pretty close to normal now as far as I can tell. The lever adjustment has to be set just right or the clutch will also drag, even with the set screw all the way in. one of the reasons that leads me to believe it may be the m/c is that I had a very slow speed drop a few years ago that scuffed the end of the lever so it may have damaged the m/c from that. Are there any possible things between the m/c & the bleeder that may be binding or something that could cause this symptom or exacerbate it? c) I'm going to lube those splines this weekend per Gregs advice to see if there is any improvement. Well again I'd like to thank everyone for their patience & advice. This forum is a godsend for people with little experience working on bikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Field Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 A "release" issue is oftyen related to spline wear. Adjust your lever so it's at its furthest position from the handgrip. That gives you more throw on the lever, giving you a better chance of having enough throw to get past the worn spots on the splines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard100t Posted April 17, 2009 Author Share Posted April 17, 2009 Well I guess the problem seems to be solved. I had set the valves about two weeks ago & I went a little tighter than usual just to see if there was much difference. I liked the way the motor ran, but thats when the lousy shifting started. So today I figured what the hell, & I went back to world specs & went for a ride. Wouldnt you know it the daemn thing shifts as smoothly as it ever used to. There must be a connection but I'll be damned if I know how the two things can affect each other. I'm still going to rebuild the m/c now that I've had it apart, the piston seal doesnt look as fresh now. Has anyone else notice the shifting gets harder if you set the valves tighter? Btw the first time I went from world spec of .10 & .15 to .075 & .125 & thats where the shifting got tougher. Today I went back to the .10 & .15 & the shifting went back to normal...Coincidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Has anyone else notice the shifting gets harder if you set the valves tighter? No possible physical correlation. Though there have been those who seem to b'lieve their Guzzi's are haunted. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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