Relays Question...

[RonV11]

I recently had a bout of NO-START and NO-LIGHTS-NO-TACH. Did the relay dance, but it took me a while to figure it out as two of the relays failed at the same time (I know... I know... go buy a lottery ticket). Thankfully, I ordered a couple of spares and all is well... for the moment...

 

As as side comment... Couldn't have happened at a worse time as the wife was along for a ride, something she rarely does on the V11 with her bum knee.

Ron says... "Really Honey, this never happenes. Wife says... "Remind me, Why did we ride the MG?"

 

Back to the question... All my relays have been changed to GEI a couple of years ago. Are the Start & Light relays the ones that fail 1st? I've been reading about replacements... are the OMRON relays better? BTW... I followed this link that was associated with OMROM, but It indicates MGR-C20 & MGR-C20S Relays. Are these the same?

 

Thanks

Ron

[Guest ratchethack]

Are the Start & Light relays the ones that fail 1st?

I don't know about others, Ron, but Start & Lights are the ones I've had trouble with, and that's with Seimens, Tyco, Bosch, AND GEI.

 

The MGR-C20 & MGR-C20S are John Mickowski's Motratech part numbers for the correct Omron relays for V11's.

. . .are the OMRON relays better?. . .

Other than my own experience with all the above relays failing, and NO Omron failures, I know of no better possible way to answer your Q than to refer you to the engineering comparison study between GEI and Omron relays that John documented on his site here:

 

http://www.motratech.com/relay_study.htm

 

Hope this helps.

[docc]

Yes, those are the two relays that are most taxed. Yet, the FI relay runs power to the fuel pump and does stay quite hot.

 

The OMRONs are still keeping my Sport quite happy . . .

 

Besides that, of course, are the fuse issues . . .

[RonV11]

Thanks Guys...

 

Did you go for the Sealed Omrons?

[raz]

Sealed is good.

 

Give a thought to the relays sockets too. I have a feeling more than 50% of all relays swap successes are actually not because a relay was shot but because the sockets were conditioned by the swapping. The GEI terminals are thinner than Omron, for example, and this may actually have more impact than the quality of the internals. I even had a (GEI) relay vibrate fully out of its socket, twice in 150 kms! The solution to that would be replacing (or tweaking) the sockets but for now I just zip-tied the relays down after cleaning them and applying a little dielectric grease, and I haven't had a problem since.

[dlaing]

Please consider bypassing the headlight current with a pair of extra relays.

I was the first V11S adopter of GEI's and still going strong, but I bypassed the headlight current, so that may explain the success, more than the GEI's, but the Siemmens failed within a few months, the Bosch lasted little longer, and the GEI's showed they cured the problem and that they were superior for our purpose than the Bosch, which was superior to the Siemmens. I ran the GEI's for over a year before I did the current bypass sometimes running the high and low beam at the same time. The current through that one relay's NC on the early V11s is too strong, and I would not be surprised if my abuse to it would eventually have killed the GEI relays. Those that drive with headlight off are less likely to have relay problems. Those that have blown fuses, failed to maintain batteries and have blown voltage regulators are all more likely to kill their relays. Also, blaring your horn isn't good for the early V11s, either. I trust the GEI's, but some here have had them fail, so do give the Omron's a try. They are more expensive, but lights failing on you while riding can be deadly. Again, consider bypassing the current to the headlights. I did before and after shots of the headlight after the bypass

[docc]

I keep hearing that using dielectric grease around any sort on contacts (switches, relays) promotes the formation of silicon dioxide. Not good to have a layer of glass on your contacts.

 

I used to use it on everything , but discussions here and elsewhere have led me to rely on copper paste. Others like the silver.

[gstallons]

Ford sells an electrical grease pt# f8az-19g208-aa that I use when installing things like relays to keep out moisture,etc. from the connection(s).

[Dan M]

Sealed is good.

 

Give a thought to the relays sockets too. I have a feeling more than 50% of all relays swap successes are actually not because a relay was shot but because the sockets were conditioned by the swapping. The GEI terminals are thinner than Omron, for example, and this may actually have more impact than the quality of the internals. I even had a (GEI) relay vibrate fully out of its socket, twice in 150 kms! The solution to that would be replacing (or tweaking) the sockets but for now I just zip-tied the relays down after cleaning them and applying a little dielectric grease, and I haven't had a problem since.

 

 

This is spot on and good advice. The resistance from a poor connection is the beginning of the end for many relays. Tweaking the socket and a spritz of contact cleaner / oxidation remover (Wurth Contact OL is what I keep on the shelf) makes for a nice connection.

Another trick if you can't get to the female socket terminals is to tweak the relay itself. A slight twist (5-10 degrees) on each spade helps put pressure against the terminals once plugged in.

[RonV11]

Thanks all for coming through with the helpful tips... I knew I could count on you all

 

dlaing, Is this the same concept Eastern Beaver sells? I read about it in Motorcycle Consumer news a while back. It got a good review.

 

docc, Is the copper/silver paste the same as the silver anti-seize I've been using on my spark plugs?

 

I will get the sealed Omrons ordered. Install them with a zip-tie, a slight twist to the terminals and a dab of contact goop and I'll be good to go.

 

Cheers

Ron

[docc]

Yes, same anti-seize paste, BUT: I was using this on spark plug threads and found the heat set it up into a hard, locking compound. NOT what I wanted for my plugs! So, I have stopped using it for plug threads.

[Greg Field]

If you simply swap relay positions periodically, say once in the spring and once in the fall, they seem to last forever.

[gothamAlp]

the current link for the omron relays is http://www.motratech.com/Motratech/MGRC20.html

 

the one above is apparently outdated...

[Guest ratchethack]

the current link for the omron relays is http://www.motratech.com/Motratech/MGRC20.html

 

the one above is apparently outdated...

GA, if you mean this link:

. . .the engineering comparison study between GEI and Omron relays that John documented on his site here:

 

http://www.motratech.com/relay_study.htm

 

Hope this helps.

. . . It's not outdated, it's a back page for the engineering study. The date of the comparison study was Jan '08. At the bottom of the page is a link to John's site Home Page and Relay Page.

 

Nice ride report, BTW. You seem to've made it over Tioga Pass between snowstorms.

[Greg Field]

I've got GEI relays in the V11 and have had since I bought it at 6,666.7 miles. Never a problem in following 28,000 miles, despite using dielectric silicone to ward off rust on all the connections in the very wet seattle riding environment. Since doing a bunch of work on my home's incoming wiring service, I've discovered another product you can get at Home Depot that seals connections and promotes contact. I'm currently experimenting with that. When I redid my Eldo's electrics in 1999, I used new relays and dielectric on everything. 129,000 miles later, everything's still cooking, except for every connection I neglected to seal with dielectric. All of those have failed. What works in SoCal, amy not work where you live, unless that's SoCal.