Paul Minnaert Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 well no diagram, what is a big difference between a-kit and c-kit, is the lift. Thats why a a-kit cam can't be made in a c-kit. Daytona/Centauro intake open 22° 30' B.T.D.C. intake closes 57° 30' after BDC. exhaust open 49° 30' before BDC exhaust Closes 12° 30' after TDC Daytona RS, c kit intake open 22° 30' B.T.D.C. intake closes 69° 30' after BDC exhaust open 63° 30' before BDC exhaust closes 28° 30' after TDC MGS01 minibook Intake opens at 36° before TDC Intake closes at 69° 30' after BDC. Exhaust opens at 64° before BDC Exhaust closes at 38° after TDC. When I get cams in, I can see if I can make a diagram. With a head on the table. I have different cams in now(Dynotec), somewhere between a and c kit. Good for the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstallons Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Paul, just curious. What are the lift specs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterguzzi Posted February 10, 2010 Author Share Posted February 10, 2010 Could i use Sport 1200 pistons for a big bore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete roper Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Could i use Sport 1200 pistons for a big bore? Nope. Different deck height. pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helicopterjim R.I.P. Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Biggest issue you're likely to have if you try to take it to 9,000 is that the oil pump will cavitate and you'll end up running big ends if you do it regularly. If you are looking for maximum grunt rather than outright HP which on any Guzzi is always the msot sensible way to go I'd think camming it up is the way to go, see if you can get a set of 'C' kit cams from somewhere then jump for a Tuneboy or some other suitably fully manipulatable ECU controller. IMHO Carillos are over-rated but if you're going for 9,000 aftermarket rods of some sort are worth it. If you do go for 'rillos I suggest that you check them for out of round on the big ends before you install. I've seen quite a few sets now that were out by up to a thou which is a bit sad really given their reputation. Nice people to dealw ith though. Pete Is my MGS good to go for 9000? Need to know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete roper Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Is my MGS good to go for 9000? Need to know! Yup, if you want to rebuild it as regularly as you do a race bike. I imagine the oil pump is the same as the Centauro or Daytona, ie gear driven with an alloy gear. this can cause problems because the pumps aren't made very well and the centre to centre distances of the shaft aren't always accurate so sometimes the gears break up. What I do know is my little hot-rod revved to 10 and it ate big end bearings like it was going out of fashion! If I rode it hard I could kill a set in hours! Remember the MGS IS a race bike. Read the service schedule and you'll see that you are expected to throw away important things like rods quite regularly, big end shells in race situations would be expected to be binned after every meeting. I know people say "It wouldn't need that if it was on the road" and that is likely partially true but it is still BUILT as a race bike with all of the caveats that involves. why do you think there is NO warranty on an MGS-01? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Minnaert Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 No Pete, the mgs has a chain oilpump setup, the same as the v11. I sometimes run my engine to 9000, only on the track where it is usefull to take it a bit higher, just before the next corner is there, easyer then shifting fo the few meters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Field Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Could i use Sport 1200 pistons for a big bore? You can if you get Carillos custom made in length to account for the deck-height difference, which will also gain you a better rod ratio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterguzzi Posted February 11, 2010 Author Share Posted February 11, 2010 Custom made carrilo's says big dollar i guess...might be cheaper to use custom made pistons 600 dollar for 4 pistons.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete roper Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Custom made carrilo's says big dollar i guess...might be cheaper to use custom made pistons 600 dollar for 4 pistons.... If you can get four DECENT forged pistons custom built for $600 I'd love to know where! Anything you're going to work hard to 9,000 RPM, (Have you worked out the MEPS?) I wouldn't want cast slugs in. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR1967 Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Remember that everything discussed above in this topic has already been done and tried out by http://www.dynotec.de/. (no I am not German and/or affiliated). I did speak to Jens Hoffman the owner on several ocasions at BOTT races in the 90's and they do give warranty on their tuned engines for the street. They have been racing Guzzi's since the 1980's and have a wealth of knowledge. The website has a part that is translated into (bad) english and I am sure they can answer emails in english too. If you go wild with a german-english converter you'll find lots of useful info. Good luck, JR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR1967 Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Artikel aus Performance bikes Guzzilla Dynotec Moto Guzzi 158bhp, 105lb-ft, 168kg – from a Guzzi - what? von Olly Crick GERMANY'S Moto Guzzi tuning specialist, Dynotec, have produced a bike so engineeringly raw it's undeniably and exceptionally cool. It bristles with technical innovations and clever solutions to making a bloody fast bike from a lumpen V-twin motor that's been all but obsolete since the mid-1970s. PB met Guzzilla at Hockenheim, which isn't the circuit it used to be. Gone is the famous forest section, replaced by a long left hander. This is worthy of note because there's no starter on this Guzzilla (one of nine that currently exist). You fire it up using a pit lane engine starter, MotoGP-style, and I'm terrified of stalling this high-compression monster on the tight hairpins that link it to the old track. Not just because there's no way of starting it again, but also because I'm really scared of dropping it as the revs die away on the slow apexes. Dynotec began making Guzzillas in 1995 and continually develop more ideas for them. If you want one, they cost between 25,000 and 45,000 euros, depending how high a specification (and how much road kit) you choose. The engine,originally a 1000cc unit from a Guzzi Daytona, is bored out to take 100mm diameter pistons. With a new 82mm stroke crankshaft, the capacity is hiked to 1288cc. To help the airflow keep up, 5mm larger inlet and exhaust valves have been slotted in. Dynotec fit their own special camshafts and a Sachs racing clutch. The extra stresses induced by all this mean the crankshaft requires bigger front bearings than stock, the pistons need stronger Carillo conrods and Dynotec's own uprated oil pump is fitted to stop everything disintegrating. The resulting lump makes a claimed 158bhp at 8400rpm and 105lb-ft at 6600rpm. To force the maximum volume through the ram-air system (48 litres), the carbon fibre seat unit doubles as the airbox. The front bodywork, also carbon, channels air through the front hoops, straight into it. The Moto Spezial fuel injection is hidden behind the side panels. The software it uses was developed on the Dynotec dyno. It's a closed loop system, so it's clean and efficient, too. The exhaust is also bespoke and carefully developed. There's a straight through 60mm diameter option that eliminates the bulky collector under the gearbox and releases another 5bhp. The front tubular sections are made from titanium, the rest are stainless steel. The completely new steel chassis is hand built by Dynotec. The original Daytona item wasn't suitable or strong enough for Guzzilla's requirements. The new chassis has a 7cm taller seat height than the Daytona and a claimed 270 per cent stronger braced headstock. The head angle is 23.6 degrees and the wheelbase 1420mm, which makes Guzzilla's dimensions as sharp as an R6 and as long as a Mille R. The Dynotec aluminium swingarm is shorter than most at 480mm (a CBR600RR is 580mm), but Guzzilla feels stable at any speed. Front brakes and both wheels are PVM. Calipers are top spec with titanium pistons, while magnesium wheels save unsprung weight and enhance the handling. The rear brake is a tiny PVM caliper off 125cc GP bike and a Dynotec 180mm disc, but with so much engine braking, a rear disc is hardly necessary. The bike weights 168kg with everything bar petrol and is suspended by Öhlins front and rear. Dynotec worked closely with the swedish firm to ensure the suspension is just right and have mounted the rear shock without a linkage. Lots of wheel travel and shifting more oil improves damping, they say. The front 'superbike' forks come with a similar set-up to that used in the German superbike series. And it's works. Initial nerves are helped by slipping the clutch through those tight hairpins until I get used to it. The steering feels heavy to start with but the traction out of corners is phenomenal. The racing pattern l-up, 4-down gearbox made a fool of me a couple of times, but once the bike had my confidence I wanted one, and still do. Giving full power on the straights and tucking in behind the long fairing, you can feel every single throb of the engine. The sound it makes is indescribable, so I won't even try. But it's not perfect and that's what I Iike about it, it has loads of character. It still sways like any other Guzzi when you rev it, it's too tall and doesn't feel like anything else. The raw unpainted metal on view is great. And it says Guzzi down each side. Spend an hour on www.dynotec.de and see if you feel the same. OC Kontakt zu Autor(en) Zurück info@dynotec.de Copyright © 2006 DYNOTEC GmbH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterguzzi Posted February 11, 2010 Author Share Posted February 11, 2010 Artikel aus Performance bikes Guzzilla Dynotec Moto Guzzi 158bhp, 105lb-ft, 168kg – from a Guzzi - what? von Olly Crick GERMANY'S Moto Guzzi tuning specialist, Dynotec, have produced a bike so engineeringly raw it's undeniably and exceptionally cool. It bristles with technical innovations and clever solutions to making a bloody fast bike from a lumpen V-twin motor that's been all but obsolete since the mid-1970s. PB met Guzzilla at Hockenheim, which isn't the circuit it used to be. Gone is the famous forest section, replaced by a long left hander. This is worthy of note because there's no starter on this Guzzilla (one of nine that currently exist). You fire it up using a pit lane engine starter, MotoGP-style, and I'm terrified of stalling this high-compression monster on the tight hairpins that link it to the old track. Not just because there's no way of starting it again, but also because I'm really scared of dropping it as the revs die away on the slow apexes. Dynotec began making Guzzillas in 1995 and continually develop more ideas for them. If you want one, they cost between 25,000 and 45,000 euros, depending how high a specification (and how much road kit) you choose. The engine,originally a 1000cc unit from a Guzzi Daytona, is bored out to take 100mm diameter pistons. With a new 82mm stroke crankshaft, the capacity is hiked to 1288cc. To help the airflow keep up, 5mm larger inlet and exhaust valves have been slotted in. Dynotec fit their own special camshafts and a Sachs racing clutch. The extra stresses induced by all this mean the crankshaft requires bigger front bearings than stock, the pistons need stronger Carillo conrods and Dynotec's own uprated oil pump is fitted to stop everything disintegrating. The resulting lump makes a claimed 158bhp at 8400rpm and 105lb-ft at 6600rpm. To force the maximum volume through the ram-air system (48 litres), the carbon fibre seat unit doubles as the airbox. The front bodywork, also carbon, channels air through the front hoops, straight into it. The Moto Spezial fuel injection is hidden behind the side panels. The software it uses was developed on the Dynotec dyno. It's a closed loop system, so it's clean and efficient, too. The exhaust is also bespoke and carefully developed. There's a straight through 60mm diameter option that eliminates the bulky collector under the gearbox and releases another 5bhp. The front tubular sections are made from titanium, the rest are stainless steel. The completely new steel chassis is hand built by Dynotec. The original Daytona item wasn't suitable or strong enough for Guzzilla's requirements. The new chassis has a 7cm taller seat height than the Daytona and a claimed 270 per cent stronger braced headstock. The head angle is 23.6 degrees and the wheelbase 1420mm, which makes Guzzilla's dimensions as sharp as an R6 and as long as a Mille R. The Dynotec aluminium swingarm is shorter than most at 480mm (a CBR600RR is 580mm), but Guzzilla feels stable at any speed. Front brakes and both wheels are PVM. Calipers are top spec with titanium pistons, while magnesium wheels save unsprung weight and enhance the handling. The rear brake is a tiny PVM caliper off 125cc GP bike and a Dynotec 180mm disc, but with so much engine braking, a rear disc is hardly necessary. The bike weights 168kg with everything bar petrol and is suspended by Öhlins front and rear. Dynotec worked closely with the swedish firm to ensure the suspension is just right and have mounted the rear shock without a linkage. Lots of wheel travel and shifting more oil improves damping, they say. The front 'superbike' forks come with a similar set-up to that used in the German superbike series. And it's works. Initial nerves are helped by slipping the clutch through those tight hairpins until I get used to it. The steering feels heavy to start with but the traction out of corners is phenomenal. The racing pattern l-up, 4-down gearbox made a fool of me a couple of times, but once the bike had my confidence I wanted one, and still do. Giving full power on the straights and tucking in behind the long fairing, you can feel every single throb of the engine. The sound it makes is indescribable, so I won't even try. But it's not perfect and that's what I Iike about it, it has loads of character. It still sways like any other Guzzi when you rev it, it's too tall and doesn't feel like anything else. The raw unpainted metal on view is great. And it says Guzzi down each side. Spend an hour on www.dynotec.de and see if you feel the same. OC Kontakt zu Autor(en) Zurück info@dynotec.de Copyright © 2006 DYNOTEC GmbH Thanx for the info!! Mine will be the poor mans version and i would be happy with 125 hp @Pete...you will have more knowlidge than i...i just found these pistons and have to see if they are forged...i doubt it but will look for it!@ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 . . .Mine will be the poor mans version and i would be happy with 125 hp Fish on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mille108 Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Thanx for the info!! Mine will be the poor mans version and i would be happy with 125 hp @Pete...you will have more knowlidge than i...i just found these pistons and have to see if they are forged...i doubt it but will look for it!@ The 125hp version wil already make you a poor man.. Im not sure but i think it wil be something in the region of 8000$ Camshafts Bigger valves headwork (porting ect) Connecting rods Bigbore cillinders forged pistons balancing Oilpump modification Powercommander or equivilant Exhaust system? manual labour inc usage of the workshop equipment (mill, lathe ect) ect ect It could even be more than 8000$ Its personal, but for me its not worth it.......i rather spend it on the chassis,wheels,forks,brakes,shock ect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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