Ding Ding, seconds out!

[NakedV]

Gawd, I hope I don't regret asking this I've seen a couple of posts re' modern synthetic oils not really being suitable for pushrod engines. I used to run BSA A65's years ago and running modern (then) oil such as Castrol GTX as advised by the Haynes manual was a guarenteed way to detonate an engine. It goes without saying that the Guzzi is a more advanced motor than the old plain bush, bearing BSA. I was thinking of running my 2001 V11 sport on a semi synthetic 10w50 or a 15w40. Changed at 6k miles along with filters etc, any thoughts. Cheers all. Mick.

[Slavomir Musilek (R.I.P.)]

I have been running 15w-50 and 20w-50 last 30.000km and engine suffered no harm (this proved to be true after tearing the engine apart during this winter).

[NakedV]

I have been running 15w-50 and 20w-50 last 30.000km and engine suffered no harm (this proved to be true after tearing the engine apart during this winter).

 

Was that a straight mineral oil, or a semi/fully synthetic? Mick.

[luhbo]

In Germany for several years the importer suggested Castrol RS only. Full synthetic and really expensive. I think to remember it was 10W-60. At these days they claimed it was the only oil good enough for a LM engine.

Don't use a special motorcycle oil.

 

Hubert

[GuzziMoto]

Gawd, I hope I don't regret asking this I've seen a couple of posts re' modern synthetic oils not really being suitable for pushrod engines. I used to run BSA A65's years ago and running modern (then) oil such as Castrol GTX as advised by the Haynes manual was a guarenteed way to detonate an engine. It goes without saying that the Guzzi is a more advanced motor than the old plain bush, bearing BSA. I was thinking of running my 2001 V11 sport on a semi synthetic 10w50 or a 15w40. Changed at 6k miles along with filters etc, any thoughts. Cheers all. Mick.

Getting into a debate on oils is a waste of time.

I do feel compelled to point out though that you have lumped all modern synthetic oils together. That is not a generalization that I would make. Modern oils vary widely in their base stocks and more importantly their additives.

I stick with oils that have an SG rating as this seems to be the optimum rating for motorcycles.

[Slavomir Musilek (R.I.P.)]

Was that a straight mineral oil, or a semi/fully synthetic? Mick.

 

min, semi, full synt are bit outdated terms, watch for API, JASO and other grades indexed on the bottle.

[rossi46]

have a look at opie oils site, I spoke to them 2day and they recommended a silkolene oil 15w-50, they seem to know there stuff-its all greek to me!

[Guest ratchethack]

Gawd, I hope I don't regret asking this I've seen a couple of posts re' modern synthetic oils not really being suitable for pushrod engines. I used to run BSA A65's years ago and running modern (then) oil such as Castrol GTX as advised by the Haynes manual was a guarenteed way to detonate an engine. It goes without saying that the Guzzi is a more advanced motor than the old plain bush, bearing BSA. I was thinking of running my 2001 V11 sport on a semi synthetic 10w50 or a 15w40. Changed at 6k miles along with filters etc, any thoughts. Cheers all. Mick.

Greets, Mick

 

FWIW, I ran nothing but Castrol GTX (and Castrol before there was GTX, as I recall) in an A65 BSA for 25 years, and did a very thorough top end rebuild/valve job/inspection along the way without any evidence of oil related problems of any kind. Though this has not been true since the mid-'80's, IMHO, it was one of the best available oil choices for that motor prior to then. Like the V11, an A65 is a plain bearing motor, and likewise being air-cooled and pushrod operated by flat tappets, it has fundamental, critical similarities with respect to oil requirements. During the years I rode my A65, Castrol and most other dino oils offered more than adequate protection for cams and tappets of flat-tappet pushrod motors, primarily due to the (then) common use of ZDDP as an additive.

 

In the mid to late '80's, ZDDP was progressively phased out (and/or "phased down") by the oil mfgr's in response to Enviro-Nazi mandates for catalytic converters, which had a tendency to go toes-up early from the ZDDP in the oil. At the same time, flat-tappet motors were by then all but obsolete, losing ground to "modern" pushrod motors with roller lifters and the trend toward OHC motors, which don't require the same level of protection afforded by ZDDP. Eventually, this regulatory “dumbing-down” of "good" additives got to the point where GTX, and for the most part, every other oil became inadequate -- and a destructive danger -- to cams and tappets in all flat-tappet pushrod motors -- including the V11.

 

Today, the critical consideration on engine oil for "obsolete" flat-tappet pushrod motors, including the V11, is still ZDDP content. V11 Guzzis need either high ZDDP oil, or a ZDDP additive (available separately) for optimum protection. IIRC, ZDDP content of "Big Twin" specific oil (readily available anywhere) is usually somewhere around double that of nearly all of today's automotive oils. Some have triple and quad relative concentrations.

 

Fortunately enough for V11 riders, flat tappet technology is not dead. It's still advancing nicely in the relatively sizeable niche market supported by hot-rodders.

 

There’s a very good article on oils for flat tappet motors in Hot Rod Magazine here:

 

Flat Tappet Cam Tech - Righting the Wrongs

 

Flat tappet cams have been failing at an alarming rate lately. We dig into what causes these failures, how to fix them and how to prevent future failures.

 

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/flat_tappet_cam_tech/index.html

[NakedV]

Greets, Mick

 

FWIW, I ran nothing but Castrol GTX (and Castrol before there was GTX, as I recall) in an A65 BSA for 25 years without any oil related problems of any kind. Though this has not been true since the mid-'80's, IMHO, it was one of the best available oil choices for that motor prior to then. Like the V11, an A65 is a plain bearing motor, and likewise being air-cooled and pushrod operated by flat tappets, it has fundamental similarities with respect to oil requirements. During the years I rode my A65, Castrol and most other dino oils offered more than adequate protection for cams and tappets of flat-tappet pushrod motors, primarily due to the (then) common use of ZDDP as an additive.

 

ZDDP was progressively phased out (and/or "phased down") by the oil mfgr's in response to Enviro-Nazi mandates for catalytic converters, which had a tendency to go toes-up early from the ZDDP in the oil. At the same time, flat-tappet motors were by then all but obsolete, losing ground to "modern" pushrod motors with roller lifters and the trend toward OHC motors, which don't require the same level of protection afforded by ZDDP. Eventually, this regulatory “dumbing-down” of "good" additives got to the point where GTX, and for the most part, every other oil became inadequate -- and a destructive danger -- to cams and tappets in all flat-tappet pushrod motors -- including the V11.

 

Today, the critical consideration on engine oil for "obsolete" flat-tappet pushrod motors, including the V11, is still ZDDP content. V11 Guzzis need either high ZDDP oil, or a ZDDP additive (available separately) for optimum protection. IIRC, ZDDP content of "Big Twin" specific oil (readily available anywhere) is usually somewhere around double that of nearly all of today's automotive oils. Some have triple and quad relative concentrations.

 

There’s a very good article on this in Hot Rod Magazine here:

 

http://www.hotrod.co...tech/index.html

 

Cheers Matey. as high zinc levels appear to be a def' bonus for Guzzi oil what do you think of this?

 

Product Description and Technical Details

Red Line Oils - About Redline 20W50 Motorcyle Oil (20w-50)

Red Line 20W50 motorcycle oil is an ester based fully synthetic 20w-50 oil for motorcycles.

 

The 20w-50 viscosity is designed for the latest Big-Twin motorcycle engines that specify 20W50 motor oil, including Evos ('84-up) and V-Rod.

 

 

About the Red Line 4-stroke motorcycle oil range

As part of Red Line’s all-new Powersports line, these High Peformance Motorcycle Oils are fully-synthetic formulas specifically created for the high demands of the latest high-revving four-strokes motocross bikes and ATVs, Sportbikes, and V-Twins. Available in popular viscosities of 10W40, 20W50, and 20W60, these ester-based products contain the anti-wear chemistry demanded by mechanics and enthusiasts.

 

The levels of zinc and phosphorus blended into these lubricants are among the highest in the industry and combine well with Red Line’s chemistry, designed to seal piston rings for more power, fight fuel dilution, extend drain interval and provide stronger film strength over a range of temperature. This oil also features lower levels of friction modifiers for superior wet clutch operation. Excellent thermal stability, oxidation resistance, cleanliness, and ability to lubricate hot metal make Red Line High Performance Motor Oil a superior lubricant. Recommended for JASO MB, API SJ, SG, & SH.

 

 

 

Red Line 20W50 Motorcyle Oil is also known as:

 

•Redline 20w50

•Redline 20w-50

•Redline Motorcycle Oil

•Redline Motorbike Oil

 

Regards, mike.

[Guest ratchethack]

Hi Mike

 

I b'lieve you'd be hard pressed to do better than Redline, my friend. But I can't personally vouch for their motor oil, because I've never used it -- simply because I happen to have a very convenient local source for an alternate high-grade full synth. that shall remain unnamed.

 

But I'm a BIG long-time fan of Redline products, having used them and sworn by them continuously in many vehicles for something close to 30 years now, and don't hesitate to recommend their various 100% synth ester base stock gear lubes. I use Redline gear lubes on all my vehicles, including the Guzzi.

 

When it comes to motor oil, I find there's really not much point in making any kind of a reference to wot I use meself here, 'cause no matter wot it is, if it's not the same as wot some d!ckweed suffering from some great wallopping ego malfunction is using, it's automatically WRONG, and then The Usual Forum Oil ClusterFarge begins. . . This being Winter, it's just not a road that I choose to turn down, y'unnerstan'. . .

 

There are many very good oils for V11's, but many more very bad ones, and the most opinionated declare their own chioce is the ONLY choice regardless o' the facts. These are the same fools who tend to read almost nothing, comprehend even less, and waddayagonna do?

 

Don't know exactly how toll free numbers here in the US might work from the UK, (then o'course there's the time challenge) but if you should have any Q at any time about any Redline products (understandable!), may I highly recommend call Dave toll free in the Tech Dept. at Redline WW HQ, right here in sunny California (Benicia). Dave's very knowledgeable on correct applications, and always willing to help. (800) 624-7958.

 

Hope this helps.

[raz]

I've been considering that Redline Bike oil too. It's pricey though. I will probably try it out this spring.

[NakedV]

I've been considering that Redline Bike oil too. It's pricey though. I will probably try it out this spring.

 

Yeah, pretty pricey but sure as sh*t cheaper than new cams/followers. I've decided the V11 is a long term ride. Don't ask why, she's got something I didn't even know I was looking for. (Que the X files musik ). Just roll on the summer. I've got limits to explore .

[DeBenGuzzi]

REDLINE all the way, I swear by them now, I currently use Agip but I'm going back to redline, same god damn price anyway. the rest of this, an OIL THREAD? in AFRICA?

[Tom M]

I'm in the process of rebuilding the top end on my '02 LeMans. I bought the bike with 7k miles on it, it currently has 27k. I believe the previous owner used Castrol GTX oil, I've used mostly Mobil 1 full synthetic 20w-50. I used their regular auto oil for the first 10k miles then switched to their V-Twin formulation for the last 2 years/10k miles.

 

Surprisingly to me my ring end gaps were beyond the wear limits at this relatively low mileage. I'm replacing my stock pistons with Mike Rich pistons during this rebuild, so when I was speaking with Mike I mentioned my ring wear. He said that every air cooled engine that he has disassembled that was run with Mobil 1 had excessive ring wear. He recommended that I run a semi-sythetic oil like Maxima along with a Lucas ZDDP additive package that's available at most auto stores.

 

Given the ring wear that I saw in my engine I'm going to take his advice.

[Guest ratchethack]

I'm in the process of rebuilding the top end on my '02 LeMans. I bought the bike with 7k miles on it, it currently has 27k. I believe the previous owner used Castrol GTX oil, I've used mostly Mobil 1 full synthetic 20w-50. I used their regular auto oil for the first 10k miles then switched to their V-Twin formulation for the last 2 years/10k miles.

 

Surprisingly to me my ring end gaps were beyond the wear limits at this relatively low mileage. I'm replacing my stock pistons with Mike Rich pistons during this rebuild, so when I was speaking with Mike I mentioned my ring wear. He said that every air cooled engine that he has disassembled that was run with Mobil 1 had excessive ring wear. He recommended that I run a semi-sythetic oil like Maxima along with a Lucas ZDDP additive package that's available at most auto stores.

 

Given the ring wear that I saw in my engine I'm going to take his advice.

Good call on the oil, Tom.

 

Coupla Q's:

 

How far out o' spec were the ring end gaps, and is it consistent on all the rings?

 

How do the tappets and cam look?