Go water-cooled. What! What?What!

[Greg Field]

I'm sorry, but while a transverse V twin cylinder engine may not be the perfect engine package it is better then Ducati's L twin package. And look how successful that has been. The pro's and con's of Guzzi engine layout have little to do with the fact that Guzzi has been trying to go out of business since 1921.

That is a much larger issue with causes that predate the transverse V layout.

 

 

In this I must disagree. The Guzzi engine forces the rider's weight to the rear, unless you make the bike very tall to get knee clearance over the cylinders. Or, they could dry-sump it and lower the engine. Neither of those would work in the modern marketplace, though.

 

Also, Guzzi was once a prosperous company. Many things contributed to the decline. Among them are an engine architecture that forced so many compromises on the bikes. No one loves that engine more than I do, but it's time to move on to something better, IMO. Yes, a V-8 might be nice. There are many other options, though.

[The Monkey]

Shucks Hubert

Those Alaskan's are just so niice and purty lounging back on their woolly bear rug's... heck, they could even be mistook for Canadian's!!!

 

Not without touques, mack jackets and wooden teeth they cant! Those arent canucks, their pants are still on! Also it is rude to wear sunglasses in an interview.

 

To the subject at hand though, for a current engine layout/design. It is difficult to imagine anything but a water cooled V-four shaftie (like the ST Honda) being taken seriously or accepted as a Guzzi. Italy should retain a distance oriented motorcycle. The sport and scooter segment are more than accounted for with the other factories. A water cooled V4 would bring them in line with the competition. Sport bike? the crankshaft does have to be transverse to be competitive, no way around that. Yet another short stroke 90 degree twin or a V5 perhaps? Seems like it would be treated as an also ran. Like the MV 750 and 1000, kindly accepted but priced beyond reason and really more like showing up at the disco with yer leather kit, and grey chest hair.

[Skeeve]

I say, Guzzi needs to return to its roots: a lay-down single! As a concession to the need to modernize, it'll be a hybrid w/ advanced electronics driving hub-mounted planetary drive electric motors [2 wheel drive! Electric braking! ] The exhaust will drive a turbo, but since forced induction is a PITA on single cylinders due to the latency between intake openings on a 4-stroke [less of a problem w/ 2-smokes, hence DKW's success w/ the teeth-rattlers in the '30s], the turbo will drive a generator to recharge the battery pack. The latent heat in the remaining exhaust gasses post-turbo will drive a free-piston Stirling engine to provide the electricity for running lights, etc.

 

Since the only real reason for a shaft-drive died with the advent of o-ring chains in the late 70s and the remaining reason of a longitudinal crank being eliminated, that huge mass of shaft & rear hub will be chucked for a shielded belt-drive: lighter than either chains or shaft, but looking much the same as the CARC, huge portions of the swingarm being wispy-light CF covers that can be easily removed when it comes time for belt replacement.

 

Since the engine will be either off or running WFO, the entire complexity of TPS setting is a non-starter, and the 'lectrics for the motor are simplified to the max to compensate for the need for a battery management unit, rheostat throttle, etc.

 

Naturally, Piaggio will f!ck it all up and have to offer repeated recalls, while continuing their policy of putting the good dealers out of business by opening 1/2 a dozen boutiques within a mile of each dealership with a functioning service dept...

[belfastguzzi]

I don't know.

That all seems very complicated, for Guzzi.

I'm thinking they should just go into the walking shoe business. Lace-up of course.

[Guzzisport]

Good topic and an interesting thread to read. Pete sounds pretty pissed off with the whole thing.

Water cooling has the primary advantage of allowing higher combustion chamber temps and the generation of more power with less noise. Everything else associated with it is a down side but that hasn't stopped progress. I think it would be great to see but more because it would signify that the thinking suddenly jumped into the 20th (not a typo) century.

[Greg Field]

I don't know.

That all seems very complicated, for Guzzi.

I'm thinking they should just go into the walking shoe business. Lace-up of course.

 

Slip-ons might be easier.

[Baldini]

I don't know.

That all seems very complicated, for Guzzi.

I'm thinking they should just go into the walking shoe business. Lace-up of course.

 

Slip-ons might be easier.

 

I'm not so sure. Loosening Slip-ons might have devastating consequences. A positive retention, such as laces properly tighened & double knotted by your mum, should obviate the need for precautionary hose clips.

[luhbo]

... such as laces properly tighened & double knotted by your mum ...

 

.. would at least give space for improvements like ultra low thermal inertia soles.

 

Hubert

[belfastguzzi]

Do clogs count as slip-ons?

Traditional, simple, robust, over-sized, lumpen and prone to woodworm. Perfect.

 

Room for 'improvement' with the addition of leather uppers, laced, of course.

 

 

[Admin Jaap]

That looks ridiculous (and not only from the knees down)

[Skeeve]

Do clogs count as slip-ons?

Traditional, simple, robust, over-sized, lumpen and prone to woodworm. Perfect.

 

Room for 'improvement' with the addition of leather uppers, laced, of course.

 

 

 

Jesus Christ! A man could walk on water w/ a pair of those!..

[felix42o]

When the Japanese bike makers were trying so hard to emulate the Harleys, they were doing it with water-cooled twins that emulated the look of air-cooled motors. They ran better, made more power and were far more reliable. And really, really boring. I've always disliked Hondas only because they're too good. It sounds rediculous but it's the truth. Moving to oil-cooling (like the newer BMW's) would split the difference pretty well, wouldn't it? They could get better tolerances, more power, and better cooling and still keep most of the good looks and mechanical clatter...

[belfastguzzi]

Moving to oil-cooling (like the newer BMW's) would split the difference pretty well, wouldn't it? They could get better tolerances, more power, and better cooling and still keep most of the good looks and mechanical clatter...

 

Well I suppose that's the direction that the current engines are in.

[Greg Field]

When the Japanese bike makers were trying so hard to emulate the Harleys, they were doing it with water-cooled twins that emulated the look of air-cooled motors. They ran better, made more power and were far more reliable. And really, really boring. I've always disliked Hondas only because they're too good. It sounds rediculous but it's the truth. Moving to oil-cooling (like the newer BMW's) would split the difference pretty well, wouldn't it? They could get better tolerances, more power, and better cooling and still keep most of the good looks and mechanical clatter...

 

 

Not really so. The successful ones ran no better, made no more power, and weren't really more reliable. What the japanese found was, if it looked enough like a Harley to sell with the Harleys, it was no better in any respect than a Harley. This is how we ended up with H-D outselling Honda in the US.

[Baldini]

...This is how we ended up with H-D outselling Honda in the US...

? IMV Harley dominance in USA is to do with "Biker" & Wannabe "Biker" attitudes to FREEDOM, NATION, HISTORY & MYTH; You just have to read the marketing guff to see which side Harley thinks it's bread's buttered: A recent ad spouting about individuality, shunning the crowd, & freedom was illustrated by a photo of a long procession of Harley cruisers, following each other down the road in identikit Harley branded outfits...

I was surprised & impressed on a trip around Western USA how many Harleys were being ridden big distances on real trips, many of them single bikes. It appeared that the majority of bikes were Harleys. Given the nature & scale of the country the Harley makes perfect sense. Any Harley copy is just that, a copy - wether it is dynamically better or not. Who wants a copy?

KB