Guest John T Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 O.K. this should carry us for awhile. What would the absolute highest you can rev one of our motors safely? Mine doesn't drop off at redline. I'm sure it would be limited to piston speed. Who has the calculations and what is the number? What is the max power you could get out of these also? I know someone mentioned that Mike Rich stated 100 HP. This must be at the wheel because my engine is producing somewher between 105-110 HP at the crank. (estimate) This is assuming normal hot rod techniques. No unubtanium or forced induction. I'm jonesin for Mikes pistons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gthyni Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Dynotec claims that they can make 108 HP: Dynotec V11 Ventiltriebskit 8806, Brennraumbearbeitung spez.Auspuffanlage, DynoTec-Abstimmung 108 PS (79,5 kW) bei 8300/min 101 Nm bei 6400/min Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_roethlisberger Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 ....gosh, do they mean 108hp at the rear wheel!? That seems pretty optimistic. Here is the link to their Moto Guzzi stuff translated to English(well, sortof ): Google-ized It looks like they are doing all the same basic stuff, so 108hp seems pretty stratospheric, unless they are talking at the crank? al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gthyni Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 ....gosh, do they mean 108hp at the rear wheel!? That seems pretty optimistic. It is compare to 92HP on a stock V11 so it should be crank HPs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_roethlisberger Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 ...oooooohhhhhhh That seems a whole lot more reasonable, and is in-line with what we have seen with modifications of bikes like John's al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 So if John did not mind compromising streetability, he could go to a hotter cam, higher compression pistons, and Mike Rich's maximum stage porting. I think the results could easily exceed 100HP, but something would have to be done to the ignition timing, the engine would have weak low end and mid range and overall the driveability might be compromised. Perhaps freer flowing mufflers. To increase the redline, lighter valves or even heavier springs might be required which might reduce durability. I think John said he already has the carillo rods, so that should help the piston redline, and the addition of an FBF piston which is less weight could help the redline. I wonder what the Guzzi Land Speed Record Team is putting out????? I think I read somewhere that the redline is over 10,000 rpm on their bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeff Kelland Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Or......we could just buy a Ducati!!!!! I like my goose like it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest captain nemo Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 I do like Ducs. Saw a 996 yesterday and it sounded just like my 'Enter the Dragon Guzzi.' Well, I had a custom map done two days ago and I'm happy to report that the Guzz is hungry for the redline. I was out last night and, coming home, 'goosed' it up the hill in front of my house. I was suddenly doing 70mph in third as the bike just wanted to keep revving. Felt like it was about to take off so I didn't stop at my house. Once again the V11 keeps surprising me. It feels like it would rev right on past the redline with no problem and no let up. If I wanted any more power, it wouldn't be on top end, but maybe low end torque so I could pull wheelies at will. That would be cool although I doubt I would actually do it - wouldn't want to put too much stress on my baby.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callison Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Mike Rich's statement to me was that the 2 valve motor was good for about a 100 HP reliably, based on the ability of the head to dissipate the heat, the lack of under crown oil piston cooling (up until 2003 anyhow), the strength and thickness of the material between the cylinder lining and the pushrod tunnels and a few other things. Speed is measured in cubic dollars and the cubic dollars necessary to keep it running. Mike said that if the bore is increased to beyond 94 mm, the pushrod area tends to crack. At 95-97 mm (97 is maximum bore for the 2 valve), the heads need copper gaskets to transfer the heat, but the same copper gaskets don't yield like the composite stock ones. That, coupled with the typical added compression, pulls the cylinder studs out of the cases. Overbore Gillardoni kits have too thin cylinder bases and move around too much, causing damage. Big bores need the cases machined to accomodate the sleeve if it is to have enough material to not flex. The list goes on and on. The potential for shrapnel increases as you push the engine further. This is true for engine and it's why racing and land speed record attempts etc are so prohibitively expensive. The four valve engine cylinder head has better and higher temperature alloys to handle the extra heat of the higher output engine, that's also why the Daytona's were two years late getting to market after the original made its debut. Mike's suggestion for a reliable engine is to stroke it and not exceed 94mm bore for reliability. 95mm is acceptable, but needs more attention to prevent calamity. Typically, the Megacycle 620/10 cam is the hottest street cam that can be dropped in without recessing the valves a bit in the combustion chamber. When you start to address what you want out of the engine, you need to plan ahead a bit. Since I know diddley squat about engine building, I defer to the experienced individuals and follow they're recommendations. To that end, when I had the $1600+ worth of head work done for the Sport 1100i, I had Mike put the allowances for the 630/10 cam. Whether I put one in or not isn't relevant, the thing is, the heads are configured for it, so the option exists. I also am buying the last stroker crank RaceCo ever made for Moto Guzzis with the tapered crank nose for the alternator. If you wanted one made now, it would set you back $3000. I'm not paying that much obviously, because I'm buying an older "production" piece. When I'm ready to rip the engine apart, I'll have the crank. When I'm ready to bore the barrels, they go L.A. Sleeve and Mike's computer program will order a custom piston ring set of the proper size. His pistons are cam ground. They are not round, they are shaped so the they will be round when the piston is at operating temperature. This the optimal type of piston for competition engines. Planning ahead again. The Sport 1100i has terrible characteristics for it's ECU. I have the Cliff Jeffries unit and my bike is wired to take either that or the stock one. Planning ahead again. WIth Cliff's unit, I can accomodate the timing changes to optimize for the dual plug heads. Do I know much about dual plug heads? No. But the heads can operated as single or dual plug. Pierre in San Diego has already forged ahead in this area, I defer to his knowledge and will use his settings as the basis of mine as I go. If I split the cases, I can opt to use Carillo rods, but necessity of having the entire unit balanced will add to the cost and delay of the project. Plan ahead again, or opt not to go that route, based upon desired engine changes. I'm not even budgeting for this project, I'm just buying the parts when they are available and setting them aside. At some point, the fun begins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Minnaert Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Dynotec is allways refering to crank horsepower. Their tuned road/race 4v engines do 136hp. The guzzila 150hp!. But i've looked in the heads, these are real big holes the gas is comming in. Also using 54mm injectors with a shower injector in front. 0-100 km/h in 2,9 s 0-200 km/h in 9,9 s 400 m in 10,6 s Topspeed 265 km/h Durchzug von 60 - 140 im letzten Gang in 8,2 s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 I think valve float will be the biggerst problem to more RPM. Like someone else said go buy a Ducati or if you wnat to stay company loyal Aprilia. Anedotally I have heard MkV's reved to 9000 rpm on a regular basis but I don't see them going much past that without throwing serious dollars at them. For HP out of a Guzzi you really need the fourvalve motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest northend Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Man you guy's have alot of money And you must be single, Ain't no way the wife is goin for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callison Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Man you guy's have alot of money Not really, the wife knows this is my hobby and passion and allowed me to keep some of the profit from re-financing the house. Other than that, it's overtime when I can get it, or scrape and save when I can't. There was also this bit of insurance payoff from when my neighbor backed into me, severely damaging the bike - not a recommended method of financing bike alterations <_ . if i were single the bikes would be in house and not garage. don know about paul... src="%7B___base_url___%7D/uploads/emoticons/default_laugh.png" alt=":lol:"> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Minnaert Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 . If I were single, the bikes would be in the house and not in the garage. I don't know about Paul... Well, I'm not single, but the long time bikes were in the living room last year, makes that I don't have to ask to put it in the living again this winter.... And about money, when you're not rich, you have to be smart. The six gear box didn't cost me money, I bought a totaled v11, took what I needed, and the remaining parts deliverd more money tha I paid for the totaled bike. And my wife knows how much fun I have working on the bike, so she accepts it cost money. She won't accept if I just went to a tuner, and said: here is 6000 euro, do nice things to the engine. Then she would ask if the bike isn't going fast enough already. And will find other things you can do with the money, holidays:-). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John T Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Well, I had a custom map done two days ago and I'm happy to report that the Guzz is hungry for the redline. Come on Cap'n Spill the beans and the dyno chart. Give us a list of mods, before and after run results! We want to see some numbers! Either we will be Or Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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