docc Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 The Vaseline/dielectric grease is to keep moisture/ air/corrosion off of the electrical connections. I guess you could use KY jelly, but I'm not sure about the cherry flavored stuff . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gio Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 Hi Docc That combo makes sense - vaseline for the mechanical and dielectric for the electrical ... I just solved the problem. Having removed the lower section of the electrical part of the ignition switch (3 plastic retaining tangs), the F6/7 switched wire was seen to be detached - so re-soldered it back in place and now both circuits switch ok. There is nothing really supporting the short loom that goes from the ignition switch to the AMP connector and so I bound everything up using that stretchy self-adhesive "emergency" tape and added some zip ties to alleviate strain (see attached pic). All good. Gio PS - Apparently the cherry stuff works really well - I'm told the Harley guys use it on their tools to prevent corrosion or something ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gio Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 Here's the pic of the final repair ... didn't attach to the last post for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 PS - Apparently the cherry stuff works really well - I'm told the Harley guys use it on their tools to prevent corrosion or something ... I mostly stay away fro the Harley guys cause I don't want to find out what "or something" means . . . I make an exception for Harley chicks, though. And gladly step up to help them get their ignition switches connected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi_Roy Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 To add further clarification - when you guys suggest vaseline - is this with respect to the mechanical side of the switch or the electrical side, or both ..? In my case, the mechanical side of the switch seems ok so am not planning on removing those security bolts, just the two cross heads that liberate the electrical side ... Vaseline for the electrical contacts. It acts as a lubricant to prevent wear and also prevents corrosion. Use it on battery terminals to prevent the lead oxide forming. Use it on wires in wet areas to prevent the copper oxidizing. Use it on the baby's bum to prevent nappy rash. And whatever else springs to mind. I swear by the stuff, don't try to tell me dielectric grease is better, it is more expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gio Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 Hi Roy ... thanks for clarification - I guess I was thinking di-electric grease might be better where electrical conductivity is required (?), but will defer to your greater knowledge/experience. Now if only we could source cherry flavour for the docc ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi_Roy Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Hi Gio, When I was an apprentice electrician on the railways back in the 60s we were taught to use petroleum jelly aka Vaseline on the large drum controllers of overhead cranes, it doesn't help the electrical contact but it stops them wearing. After a few years in the bike switches it goes hard and tends to hold the contacts apart, but without it the contacts would soon wear away. You can verify it's going hard by measuring the contact resistance, if it's different each time you operate the switch that's a symptom. As a grease it's also ok for the mechanical parts We were also taught to put it on the terminal posts of large traction batteries, there it provides a film that prevents the oxygen from attacking the lead to form lead oxide which is an insulator. I would be very surprised to find that di-electric grease is a conductor, even if it is it can't possibly be better than metal to metal contact. The way your wire broke looks typical of a wire bending in one spot, copper work hardens which makes it brittle, the others are probably on the way out also, you would be better off to replace them all, perhaps with a splice under the tank since it's not easy to change the connector. Make sure the wires don't bend in one spot especially where they are soldered to the switch, a gentle twisting along several inches is what you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gio Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 Interesting. Regarding the wire break below the ignition switch (actually upon removal it was found to be about half-broken) - correct, there was bending in the loom to the AMP connector at that point - the sleeve had already cracked and the wire was next in line. I guess these wires are going on 14 years old now and have become quite accustomed to their shape!. When I removed the lower (electrical) part of the ignition switch - I found that there was nothing gripping the loom as it exited the hole in the base - so with flexing each time the bars are turned this must be what caused the internal connection to break. This is why I wrapped the first few inches with the self-adhesive tape (to cover the repaired region) and added some support - there is a natural bend to the left as the looms heads towards the AMP connector and it passes very close to the speedo cable drive - the support helps clearance there also. I also made sure the routing to the AMP is as free as space permits. Now - time to fit the new rear tire and some upcoming riding weather! Cheers! Gio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi_Roy Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Ok, I missed that it broke at the solder joint. that's another really weak point because the wire has less strength without the support of the insulation. It's good for another 14 years now you re-enforced it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuzziMoto Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 "I would be very surprised to find that di-electric grease is a conductor, even if it is it can't possibly be better than metal to metal contact." Di-electric grease is not supposed to be a conductor. It works much like Vaseline does, it shields the contact from air and moisture to prevent corrosion. There are plenty of opinions on di-electric grease here and else where. All I would say is using too much of it is likely to cause problems. A small amount is usually all you need. Much like Vaseline. Use whatever product you want, but use it correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callison Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Update Still chasing this problem. Removed the ignition switch (via removal of the top triple clamp and two bolts through the dash) but discovered that - with respect to the AMP connector, there are differences between the 1999 schematic referenced above, and the actual wiring on my bike. Schematic shows ignition switches I+J (pins 1+2) for the headlight (which works) and K+L (pins 3 and 4) for the missing F6/7 (indicators / taillight) - but in fact I+K (pins 1+3) switch the headlight and J+L (pins 2+4) the missing items. I confirmed this by jumping pins 2 and 4 on the AMP connector and saw the indicators working. (Jumping pins 1+3 activates headlight also) I repaired the damaged yellow wire (L or pin 4) but still only get switching between pins 1+3, but not 2 and 4 So my problem would apear to be in the switch (or associated wiring tail). The black (plastic) part is held on by two cross-head screws, can be removed and (presumably) contains the moving electrical connectors. The upper (metal) mechanical part of the switch seems to be working normally (as evidenced by working headlight) ... Question - how to I take apart the electrical portion to determine where the problem might be? Now I'm trying to remember where in hell I got the I, J, K & L pinouts from. The original schematic has them as 1, 3, 4 & 2 repectively. TIme to "repair" another schematic I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gio Posted March 15, 2013 Author Share Posted March 15, 2013 No worries Carl - and I'm sure I speak for many others ... your schematics are a great resource! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rex007can Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 If this rings anyone a bell, or if you have suggestions it would be much appreciated. Arsenic comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Hi Roy ... thanks for clarification - I guess I was thinking di-electric grease might be better where electrical conductivity is required (?), but will defer to your greater knowledge/experience. Now if only we could source cherry flavour for the docc ... Noooo.. di electric means "doesn't conduct electricity. Don't get me started. I've spent hours cleaning that crap out of connectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 For a time, I thought copper anti-seize paste would serve both functions. gstallons suggested I test it for resistance. It has plenty of that! (zero conductivity). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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