Guest ratchethack Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 I’ve grounded my sidestand enough to wear it down. At some point I’ll have to have aluminum welded back on or I’ll be parking the bike on a dagger-shaped point, not something I’m looking forward to testing too much on hot asphalt this summer. I find that the sound of the stand grounding gives good feedback with little danger of unweighting the tires, since the stand just compresses against it’s rubber stop and doesn’t seem to offer a lot of initial resistance. On the RIGHT side, however, my tire wear shows that I’ve been getting consistently farther over on the right than on the left, yet nothing has touched down yet. I'm betting somebody here knows this very well. So what grounds first on the right on the short wheelbase Sports (mine’s a 2000)? If it’s the footpeg, that’s just peachy, because it’ll just fold up as designed, with as good or maybe better feedback than the stand. But if it’s the stock muffler, I’m a tad concerned about unweighting the rear tire without much warning… Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiekb Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 I have a 2001 V11 Sport so it's pretty much the same bike as yours. I've ground my right peg without anything else touching but i have the mistral ti ovals on my V11 so I can't say for sure that your peg would grind first. my guess is that it also has to do with how much your suspension is compressed due to rider weight and your suspension setting as well but i'll leave that topic to someone who actually knows what they're talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Encouraging, Robbiekb, thanks for the feedback. The stock exhaust may touch down before the Mistral ovals would, but this would be mostly specualtion on my part. My Sachs/Boge static preload is set to 30% of full compression, likewise the Marz fork, and the fork tubes are currently raised 3mm. I weigh 175 and ride "up forward" in the twisties, with some additional weight bias toward the front, & usually load the bike with nothing more than a light tank bag, so there's seldom any added rearward load. Assuming a surface free of bumps & dips, etc., I believe that compression & rebound settings would for the most part be irrelevant as far as what grounds first. Any additional input on this out there por favor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CafeRacer Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 I ground my right can at Buttonwillow last Monday without touching anything else down. So, the stock can will touch down before the peg on the right side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janusz Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 In my previous life BFC (Before Ferraci Cans) I did scrape a kickstand on the left and front part of the stock muffler on the right. Then i started to hang off a little and stopped scraping altogether. Now in my AFC period I did not scrape anything on the starboard side so cannot tell for sure. It would be a footpeg I guess since Ferraci cans are so much smaller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiekb Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 I'm actually in process of putting on the High Mounts for my mufflers, c'mon admit it, you want the Hi Mounts and new cans anyways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve G. Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 The right side can grinds. Now that I have Evoluzione footpeg kit on, the pegs sparkle. I like that! Ciao, Steve G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Stewart Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Encouraging, Robbiekb, thanks for the feedback. The stock exhaust may touch down before the Mistral ovals would, but this would be mostly specualtion on my part. My Sachs/Boge static preload is set to 30% of full compression, likewise the Marz fork, and the fork tubes are currently raised 3mm. I weigh 175 and ride "up forward" in the twisties, with some additional weight bias toward the front, & usually load the bike with nothing more than a light tank bag, so there's seldom any added rearward load. Assuming a surface free of bumps & dips, etc., I believe that compression & rebound settings would for the most part be irrelevant as far as what grounds first. Any additional input on this out there por favor? I have found that having the sag set to 30% of travel in the rear is still too soft on my 00 V11sport. There is only about 125mm. of rear wheel travel and that is with the shock's bumper stop compressed. By adjusting the rear suspension stiffer and cutting the sidestand rubber bumper down, grinding the side stand is much more of a challenge. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Mike, thanks for your input. I think I'll be trimming the stand stop back as you suggested. Re: the shock, I've found that a static loaded setting of 30% of full compression (using the "rule of thumb") is pretty stiff for my weight (175 lb.). It's harsh enough at 30% to buck me well off the seat over light to moderate bumps at speed. so I'm hesitant to increase the preload. What static % compression do you set the shock on your Sport, and what do you weigh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Jaap Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 If anyone is interested, I have a spare sidestand for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 I have to agree with Mike the 30% is too much sag for a sporting bike. I have to say (for the hundredth time...) that setting pre-load doesn't change the spring rate. How much pre-load did it take to get your sag set? If it is more than 5 - 7 MM (especially given your large amount of sag) your spring it too soft. The correct spring will give you a better ride (excessive pre-load makes the ride feel stiff) and more ground clearance. The only down side to replacing the rear spring is realizing your front springs are also too soft. My bike has much stiffer than stock springs. I think the stock fork springs are about 0.6 Kg/ Cm, mine are 1.05 Kg/ Cm I don't know the stock rear spring but I'd guess it is in the range of 400 to 450 In/ Lb, my rear spring's rate is 550 In/ Lb. Don't worry about the metric Vs. imperial measurements, look at the percentage change. I got a chance to swap bikes with a friend with a stone stock but carefully adjusted bike just like mine. My friend is much lighter than me (nearly 100 pounds/ 45 Kg) and both of us noted my bike rides as well as his. After a few miles of riding on a flat, straight road I was thinking the stock suspension wasn't so bad. The stock bike feels like a Cadillac, sort of "floaty" but not bad. My bike feels like a Porsche, it lets you know you hit a bump but there is no (front)/ little (rear) shock transmitted to the rider. We turned off onto a bumpy, twisty road and I changed my mind about the stock bike quickly. The amount of dive under braking and spring compression while cornering was scary. Changing springs will not help the lack of damping but at least your bike will have some travel left to deal with bumps under braking and it will retain the correct geometry and have much more ground clearance while cornering. The right springs for your bike will be an improvement in every way, better ride, better handling, more ground clearance. Also, the your wallet will be lighter, improving all areas of performance. ;-) Lex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Lex, I may be wrong here and if so I may have to change the way I think about my setup. It could happen, but I don't think so. I value your input (and those of all who responded on this - many thanks!) This ain't rocket science, but it sure can get confusing and right now I;ll admit that I'm a little confused but always eager to gain more Guzzi knowledge & this forum is #1! Let me see if I can make sure we're on the same page here, there may be some semantic differences in the way we've been using terms (sorry if it's me). Please forgive my attempts to be simple, there's no egoism involved here, just an attempt to learn if possible! You said, "I have to agree with Mike the 30% is too much sag for a sporting bike. I have to say (for the hundredth time...) that setting pre-load doesn't change the spring rate. How much pre-load did it take to get your sag set? If it is more than 5 - 7 MM (especially given your large amount of sag) your spring it too soft. The correct spring will give you a better ride (excessive pre-load makes the ride feel stiff) and more ground clearance. The only down side to replacing the rear spring is realizing your front springs are also too soft." First, I'm very familiar with preload vs. spring rate. There's no confusion there. I'm using all stock springs at this point. Let's leave the terms "compression" and "rebound" OUT of the discussion for the time being and focus only on the rear end. The way I set my shock preload is to carefully measure rear wheel vertical travel deflection (I think you're referring to this as "sag") under normal static load. I take 2 measurements - #1 with the rear wheel off the ground. This establishes my baseline. My second measurement is from a known reference point. I use an assortment of rulers, internal caliper, clamps, etc. - trust me, you don't want to know. This stuff goes between the hugger and the underside of the fender & I trust it because it's spot-on accurate & repeatable. So I take measurement #2 in riding position on the bike and my usual riding load on board. My current shock spring deflection measurement under normal riding load is 27mm vertical rear wheel travel (of the 90mm total available rear wheel travel). This is 30% of total available travel. To achieve 30%, I had to crank down the spring preload on the shock a LONG way from the way it came from MG. It came from the factory with a setting that gave me approx. 64% deflection (sag) under static load, which was ridiculously soft and nearly unrideable at anything near "sporting" mode. So I've increased my spring preload by more than double over the setting as delivered. The bike only started handling anything near reasonably well after I got the preload in this range. I've experimented with different preload (sag) settings around 30% in conjunction with many separate fork adjustments (let's not get started down that road here), but somewhere around 30% rear wheel deflection (sag) under load (my understanding of the "rule of thumb" setting being ~25-33%) seems to provide the best overall road manners for my kind of sport riding at the current fork settings. For my weight, the shock feels perfect in the mountains but is pretty harsh over moderate bumps compared to many other bikes I've owned, and in fact as I said, it can (and does) buck my butt right off the bike. This leads me to believe that I might actually benefit from a SOFTER spring with the current preload setting. So are you and Mike still saying I'm way off in the weeds here, and that I need to add even more preload, giving me even less deflection (or sag) under load, or has there been a misunderstanding? If you really mean I should be at less than 30%, about how much less are you suggesting? are you suggesting less than 25%? What comparable sag or static deflection settings are you using? Thanks again in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldini Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 To achieve 30%, I had to crank down the spring preload on the shock a LONG way ...I might actually benefit from a SOFTER spring with the current preload setting... has there been a misunderstanding? ratchethack, Unless I missed something, sounds like you need a stiffer spring using less preload on the shock to get the sag. Will give a better ride. I think this is what Lex is saying. On 02 Scura the front lower edge of the stock can grounds first on right. You can loosen up the clamps & twist can round on the crossover & up a little on the hangers to get a bit more clearance. KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Baldini, thanx for chiming in. Sorry for the way too long prev. post. Consensus seems to be forming around going to a stiffer spring. This would require less preload to give 30% sag. Makes sense. Anyone else who weighs around 175 lb. also find they needed a stiffer spring with the Sachs-Boge shock to get a 25-33% sag range and also better performance? If so, new question: What spring stiffness is recommended for a 175lb. rider and where can I get 'em? Thanks again, to all you Guys. Learning is a beautiful thing and (ego permitting) it never stops... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballacraine Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 I wonder if I am alone in wondering...... If this multi-adjustable suspension is just a cop-out by the manufacturers?... Like....'We can't get it right....Mebbe you can?' Seriously, though it always used to be that suspension was pre set, you either got on with it, or changed the springs, damping oil or ride height & that was it. I know each combination of rider & riding conditions differ but....As I see it the more options...the more confusion...The more opportunity to cock it up? Or maybe it is just me? Nige. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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