al_roethlisberger Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 I don't think John was giving you a hard time, just making a comment. It's been noted in a couple threads on this forum, and elsewhere, that the V11 Sport engine is known for oil starvation if the level isn't topped-off just right.... even under hard acceleration, as you point out Jim. The pickup is apparently up front, and doesn't swing. It's too bad we don't have a windage tray available, as that might help a bit ...or you could convert to a deep sump I guess. Would that help?? I had my light wink briefly on once in this very scenario, and I immediately shut it down to check things. It only takes a moment to cook the main bearings. Anyway, just a side-note, that many or prolonged wheelies with these bikes is perhaps a bit more risky than on some other bikes. But yes, if one considers that just a "cost of having fun", then absolutely, just go have fun After all, even worst case... it is fixable al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F344 Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 Is a deeper sump available for the V11? Anybody have a link? Thanks Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_roethlisberger Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 Several places sell/sold them, here's one: http://www.mgcycle.com/externals.html al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete roper Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 I don't think the Moto Spezial V sump will work as a direct bolt-on with the 'Broad Sump' models. The internal plumbing and the drillings will, I think, preclude it but I may be wrong. As for a windage tray? If anyone wants to loan me their V11 I'll design one, if possible without too much effort. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Minnaert Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 I've looked on the moto spezial site, they just make 2 different types, 2v and 4v, I've seen v11 with them, so I think no problem here. They can be deliverd with an oil level glass, like on the gearbox. They cost 399 euro, or 416 euro with oil level window. www.moto-spezial.de So Pete for the windage tray, yours should fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX REDNECK (R.I.P.) Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 Pete, glad to see you're back with us I thought you might given up on us P.S. Doesn't Mike Stewart have a deep sump on his sport ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emry Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 Guzzi Tech Windage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helicopterjim R.I.P. Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 I'm still doing wheelies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete roper Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 Nah, I'm still around Tex . The only reason I don't bang on more here is because my knowledge of the newer bikes is strictly limited. It's not that I don't *want* to know more, simply that in my neck of the woods they are as rare as hens' teeth so I don't get the opportunity to find stuff out! As For the windage trays? Well, if Paul says that the Moto Spezial sump will fit then the plate I'm doing to do for the Cali bikes with a Harpers 'Outsider' should fit OK. That is currntly on the back-burner though as I've come back to a shitload of work and hassle that I have to get cleared up and then I have to make a final decision about whether I keep the doors open or shut up shop and go back to just working on my own and mates' bikes. Running a one-man motorbike business is fairly joyless and to be honest I'm beginning to think I don't need the hassle. If I got more help, interest or info from the importer and could actually find something about the current company work practices that I could respect things would be different but........... Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldini Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 whether I keep the doors open or shut up shop and go back to just working on my own and mates' bikes. Running a one-man motorbike business is fairly joyless and to be honest I'm beginning to think I don't need the hassle. If I got more help, interest or info from the importer and could actually find something about the current company work practices that I could respect things would be different but........... Good to have you with us Pete. Ain't nothing going to change re Guzzi, holidays make you think...best of luck whatever, KB Ps If you still got a windage tray for a Tonti - I want one. Tell me how I pay you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GGuzzi Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 All I see is the front mounted oil pump looking for oil and pumping air to the crank If that is so then please don't ever accelerate with your bike because all the oil will rush to the back of the engine and it will blow up! So far it is a cheap trick and I guess until you have tried it you will never know. I intend to enjoy my bike and I hope you all enjoy your bikes. Well said helio. Well said. What do the 11:1 pistons set you back{price) and are they worth it? I just had the PC111 installed , no cross over, airbox and FBF Cans. can't imagine the Rosso being anymore responsive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GGuzzi Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 I don't think John was giving you a hard time, just making a comment. It's been noted in a couple threads on this forum, and elsewhere, that the V11 Sport engine is known for oil starvation if the level isn't topped-off just right.... even under hard acceleration, as you point out Jim. The pickup is apparently up front, and doesn't swing. It's too bad we don't have a windage tray available, as that might help a bit ...or you could convert to a deep sump I guess. Would that help?? I had my light wink briefly on once in this very scenario, and I immediately shut it down to check things. It only takes a moment to cook the main bearings. Anyway, just a side-note, that many or prolonged wheelies with these bikes is perhaps a bit more risky than on some other bikes. But yes, if one considers that just a "cost of having fun", then absolutely, just go have fun After all, even worst case... it is fixable al Al, I had the same wink twice during hard acceleration. Should I be worried about that. I knew it was momentary, should I check the level. What up. I for one do not like doing wheelies , Huska 400 will suffice but I do enjoy the occasional hole shot. Any advice and could I have already damaged it.???? GGuzzi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_roethlisberger Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 I'm sure it's fine if it's still running and sounds OK However, if the light "winks" every so often, I would assume your level is a bit low.... maybe not critically, but it might be a good measure to just check the level. al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete roper Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 There have been reported instances of the 'broad sump' bikes torching their big ends due to what is assumed to be starvation of the front mount pick-up. I know for sure that it can be a problem as we ran the big ends on our racebike which was fitted at that time with an 850T crankcase whicgh also has a forward mounted pickup. Turn 1 at Eastern Creek is a flat out corner that you accelerate all the way to, the oil migrated, the pump was pumping air rather than oil and it made the 'Dogga-Dogga' noise. It's important to remember that it is vital for plain bearings to have a constant supply of oil at high pressure. Even momentary starvation will cause damage. If you are pulling 6,000RPM then every time the crank turns the rods rotate once on the pin, (Or the pin rotates once in the rod if you prefer ). The pin diameter is what? On the 78mm stroke bikes it's 47mm but I think the 1100's are a bit bigger, lets say 48mm. So the surface of the bearing and the pin are going to be moving relative to each other at a rate of about 181mm per revolution. 181 x 6000 = 1086000 mm per minute, 1086m per minute! divide by 60 gives you 18.1 metres per second relative to each other. You try rubbing your arse along something at 18.1M/Ps and see how you like it without any lubrication . The bearings won't like it much either. By the time the light comes on the damage will already of been done. If you're lucky it won't be too severe if it's a one-off, modern anti-scuff agents are pretty good, but boundary lubrication WILL occur and damage WILL be done. It has been suggested that over-filling the sump can help prevent this. The problem is that the 'Broad Sump' models already have the oil closer to the crank than the earlier models so windage will be more of a problem and by putting more oil in the cases you are also increasing the presurisation problems that Guzzi big blocks are already known to have. No, I don't have any magical answers, I wish I did, but it isn't advisable to pop wheelies for this reason. Early 8 valve Ducatis had the same problems btw. If you want to pull Mono's get a traily, ts more fun on them anyway. Remember any energy wasted getting the front wheel up is energy that could be better used making the machine go forward! With a Guzzi it needs all the help it can get Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_roethlisberger Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 So Pete, would your windage tray help these issues in any respect at all? I'm not real clear on all the advantages of the tray.... al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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